Where Dark Things Sleep - New faction enhancement submod for OOTM

[Spice Master]

Starting work on a new submod along similar line to my other "minor" faction enhancement submods, this time for OOTM. No release planned yet, just planning out the mod and working up a few unit ideas so far. This will also be included in my compliation mod to be released, probably this summer.

The general concept of this mod is to enhance the roleplaying feel and lore immersion of this faction for a more unique gaming experience. OOTM we become an even more primitive, barbaric, goblin horde faction, and the player will have to deal with the limitations this imposes as well as keeping a strong hand to rule the various rival goblin tribes.

Some planned features:

- OOTM will lose the capability to field some higher tech/disciplined units including traditional artillery and halberd/phalanx polearms
- In general, units will use the horde formation rather than square
- A campaign quest to wake the Balrog, possibly with the option of releasing it from Moria to wreak destruction across northern Middle Earth, with a ranged fire attack to replace the lack of artillery

New units planned:

Orc Berserkers - savage mountain orcs, wearing peices of looted mannish armour and heavy 2-handed weapons (done!)
Wolf Riders - basic snaga riders, weak but numerous and cheap
Cliff Trolls - Rock throwing trolls (again to replace the lack of traditional artillery)
Redone Warg Rider - based on those seen in the new Hobbit movie

Still in the early stages on this, but I'm posting this in case anyone has ideas or feedback to share and to record my own thoughts.

[Trailhog250]

Interesting.. The OoTMM needs more attention. But how are you going to pull off the Balrog's fire attack and the Cliff Trolls' rock throwing attacks? That will require new animations I believe and is it even possible without looking silly?

But either way good luck on this endeavor

[Spice Master]

If there are other additions or suggestions for things you'd like to see with this faction, please post here.

[Trailhog250]

With each new mod I do, I challenge myself to learn new skills, so the challenge with this one, as you point out, will be the animations for the trolls and balrog.

I don't want to sound like "that guy" , but just a forewarning that most (including many very experienced modders) consider animations to be one of the trickiest things to do. Those that are proficient in it and willing to take the time to mod animations are considered rare.

If there are other additions or suggestions for things you'd like to see with this faction, please post here.

Some AOR units would be nice.

[lordargento]

Also add Black Uruks of Moria!

[Madril]

Awesome ideas! Can I help for unit descriptions? Black Uruks of Moria are a good idea too! I had an idea for some kind for Azog"'s orcs . They could be called Moria Pit Guards, wielding maces and crude axes, with medium armour and heavy shields. Rarer but stronger than Goblins.

[Spice Master]

With each new mod I do, I challenge myself to learn new skills, so the challenge with this one, as you point out, will be the animations for the trolls and balrog.

[lordargento]

And what about Hobgoblins?. Remember this warning from Gandalf to Bilbo: "simply stiff with goblins, hobgoblins, and orcs of the worst description". They can be big and strong as Beornings.
And what about Half-orcs (also known as Goblin-men). Remember what Frodo once said: " he looks more than half like a goblin."
Among the Dunledings who came to Saruman's banner of the White Hand in Isengard there were "large men, lynx-eyed and evil, who were called half-orcs". Many were counted among the strongest servants of Saruman. This is stated in some Tolkien articles i have read.
It is obvious they served Saruman (so they should belong to Isengard faction or even to the Dunledings) but perhaps you can make them also a unit for OOoMM and call them by their other name: Goblin- men.
And please, leave their halberd/phalanx capability for heavy armoured halberdiers, and also the square formation for them, and for the heavy infantry and the heavy archers (as well as the bodyguards). They should have some disciplined troops.
Hope you like the suggestions. Thanks for your time.

[Araval]

Good luck with this!

Warg riders from the hobbit were from Gundabad, so they should go there.

[glassakias]

rock throwing trolls aren't that hard, some editing of the javelin throw animation will do the job. the real challenge is the balrog. there is no suitable animation that can be edited into "breathing fire" (i suppose it's ranged attack will come out of it's mouth, right?). what's more, if i remember correctly, there is a hardcoded limit to the greek fire range which doesn't allow for long distances, so you will have to use flaming artillery projectiles. i guess you can make them go fast enough to look like "fireballs", but it will still look kinda weird for the balrog to spit huge boulders.
you've got very good ideas, though. it was about time someone made the OOTMM a more interesting faction

[Spice Master]

Thank you al for your suggestions.

Some AOR units are definitely on tap here.

Glassakias, animation is totally new to me (like I said, I like a challenge) so any pointers, advice, or tutorials on this would be very much appreciated. I was thinking some kind of javelin type animation could maybe work. Also the trolls actually have a melee animation already that kind of looks like a throwing motion, if you take away the clubs. I have no idea how hard this would be to convert into a missile throwing animation. For the balrog, I was thinking trying to make it spit flaming ballista spears, but maybe with the spear itself turned invisible, so you only see the flames.

[glassakias]

Glassakias, animation is totally new to me (like I said, I like a challenge) so any pointers, advice, or tutorials on this would be very much appreciated. I was thinking some kind of javelin type animation could maybe work. Also the trolls actually have a melee animation already that kind of looks like a throwing motion, if you take away the clubs. I have no idea how hard this would be to convert into a missile throwing animation. For the balrog, I was thinking trying to make it spit flaming ballista spears, but maybe with the spear itself turned invisible, so you only see the flames.

converting a hitting animation into a throwing one should be easy, just a matter of changing names. editing .cas missiles is trickier. i'm not a missile and animation expert myself, so i suggest that you head to the Tutorial section of the Mod Workshop and see what you can find there.

[Spice Master]

I'm considering using the 2-handed axe/mace orcs that I did would do nicely as and AOR "Black Uruks of Moria". I will give some of their equipment a slightly battered, dwarven look. With the goblin sack of Moria, a lot of dwarven stuff would have ended up in orcish hands.

I will also make some kind of dual-wielding, half naked orc berserker unit, probably and AOR unit from further north somewhere.

[Poosticks7]

Hear are some ideas for OoMM units. Taken from a thread I started 2 years ago (wow don't time fly)

link to thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...csie&highlight=

Great Goblins. Elite unit for the OoMM.The larger more dangerous denizens of the mountain inspired by Bolg’s bodyguard. Armed with scimitars and shields and armoured well. AoR Goblin Town and possibly Moria.

Mountain Scouts. Medium archer unit for OoMM (something with a little more bite).

Wild Wolves.

Warriors of the Black Pit/ Orcs of the Deep. AOR Moria unit for the OoMM (the cream of the crop in goblin terms).

Orc Ravagers. A scaled down beserker unit for OoMM. shocktroopers with silly high attack and almost no defence.

Hill Trolls should be added to OoMM. Smaller than a Cave Troll but in greater numbers (with stats to reflect this).

Orcs of the Grey Mountains. perhaps armed with two weapons.

[Madril]

Sound awesome Poosticks! You read in my mind :p

[the dark lord of mordor Sauron]

how about half trolls from battle for middle earth?

[Spice Master]

Poosticks, great suggestions. I' definitely thinking along these same lines.

What do you guys think about warg mounted generals? I would be basing them off the hunting party seen in An Unexpected Journey. In the movie they call the leader Azog and he's from Gundabad, but in the original lore Azog is already dead by then, and his son Bolg rules in Moria.

I've seen arguments that they can unbalance things, but both ways (commit to melee and get killed to easy/heavy cataphracts like Rhun's overpowered for early game/etc. . ) so I think I could keep things balanced with a little tweaking. Part of what I want to do with this mod is really differentiate this faction from OOG, and I think adding more wargs and mounted generals would help with this.

[Poosticks7]

Is there a way to have warg mounted generals and foot generals?

Bolg ruled from Gundabad I seem to recall. It is the Orc 'capital'.

[AdanJ]

Wargs seem like more of an Gundabad thing. They would live in the hills and plains, not inside the caves like goblins. I think more diverse infantry would seem more correct rather than more cavalry/wargs.

[knight of meh]

Is there a way to have warg mounted generals and foot generals?

Bolg ruled from Gundabad I seem to recall. It is the Orc 'capital'.

Afaik all new generals have the same bodyguard unless you use the bodyguard switcher script

script produced by this awesome guy http://www.twcenter.net/forums/membe...45403-Withwnar

and a link to the submod
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...3-2-compatible

but all starting generals can have whatever bodyguard you feel like