Questions on Teutonic Campaign

**Parzival2211** · April 04, 2013, 02:35 AM

Playing the Teutonic campaign for the first time (as the Order, VH/N), I'm wondering whether the alliances/diplomatic relations are heavily scripted. At first, the Polish offer me an alliance, and the war against Lithuania is already ongoing.

Once, the Lithuanians were reduced to 2 provinces, they converted to the Catholic faith, and the next turn my "ally" Poland made peace with Lithuania and started moving armies towards my cities. The following turn, the Polish broke the alliance and attacked me and allied with Lithuania instead.

1. This is, historically, kind of correct (although it happened 100 years early), but does anyone know whether that is all scripted and bound to happen in every campaign?

2. I also noticed that there are some inconsistencies between unit descriptions and defence values - like units carrying shields, but having 0 defence value from shields, or units not carrying shields, but having 8 (!!) defence from shields. Is that a bug or a way of balancing?

3. If you play as Lithuania, can you choose to convert to Catholicism at any time?

4. If you do, do you lose your religous special units (which are all of the higher tier units)?

Must say it's been great fun so far.

**eXistenZ** · April 04, 2013, 03:14 AM

cant say 1 and 2, but the answer to 3 is no, you get a special event which only comes once. And the answer to 4 is yes. You also lose the pagan buildings.

**Parzival2211** · April 04, 2013, 06:44 AM

Thanks eXistenZ. Do you get anything else to replace the special pagan units? E.g. typical Western European knights?

**PrestigeX** · April 04, 2013, 08:01 AM

You get mounted and dismounted Knights - They're akin to Hungarian knights and carry a distinctive shield, like a mini pavise kind of thing.

and more importantly...you get
Gunpowder - Arquebusier which can blast away the heaviest Order armor.

**Aeratus** · April 04, 2013, 10:41 AM

The Teutonic campaign is somewhat heavily scripted.

Although I can't recall if the activities that you mentioned are scripted, the Teutonic campaign does have a script in which all factions will attack you once you reach a certain number of provinces. Also, there is a "last-stand" script where factions that have 3 provinces remaining will get a substantial money script income.

**Parzival2211** · April 04, 2013, 10:51 AM

Thanks Aeratus and PrestigeX (+ rep, also for eXistenZ).

I noticed the money "last-stand" script, when Lithuania was reduced to 2 or 3 provinces and I took the Grand Duke alive in a battle. Altogether, they paid 18K florins ransom! I couldn't resist. They managed that only thanks to that money boost.

Do you know the threshold for the "all faction attack" number of provinces?

**Aeratus** · April 04, 2013, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Parzival2211

Do you know the threshold for the "all faction attack" number of provinces?

There are two thresholds. 25 provinces triggers the AI behavior "target_human_stage1". 35 provinces triggers the behavior "target_human_stage2".

I'm not entirely sure what's the difference between stage 1 and stage 2, but maybe the difference is that at stage 2, even your allies will attack you.

Also, this attack script only applies if the difficulty level is above easy.

**Eisenhart_IV** · April 04, 2013, 07:34 PM

I have one ongoing Teutonic campaign at the moment, and i have reduced Lithuania down to 1 province. When they had about 3 provinces left, they decided to convert to Christianity, but Poland never allied with them although they started attacking me. At that point Lithuania all of a sudden produced a couple if full stacks, but that stopped i think when i took their last castle.

**Parzival2211** · April 05, 2013, 02:13 AM

Alright, then there is more to expect. I don't even have 20 provinces and apart from Lithuania (default) Nowgorod dow-ed me turn 3, and now, Poland backstabbed me. There is also a large Danish army lingering on my border in the North (Estonia). It does look like TOTAL WAR.

**Captain W. Handberg** · April 08, 2013, 01:43 AM

Denmark attacking you? Weren't the Danes allied with the Teutonic Order, and togheter they Crusaded against Novgorod?

**Eisenhart_IV** · April 08, 2013, 04:21 AM

The relationship between Denmark and Teutonic Order wasn't that straight forward. Actually their relationship reached a high tension in 1360s and a war broke out between an allegiance of some Hanseatic League cities and Denmark, which was proposed by the Grand Master of the Teutonic Order. Although it wasn't a Teutonic-Danish war per se, it was in essence a conflict between the trade interests of Hanseatic cities (some of which where held by Teutonic Knights) and the interests of Denmark.
Even if this wasn't so, i think M2TW is about re-writing the history (hence the guy writing a book in the intro of the main campaign), not enacting it exactly as it happened.

**Parzival2211** · April 08, 2013, 05:50 AM

The Danish haven't attacked me yet. They keep their full stack just at the border of Pernau in the North, South of Reval.

They are allied with Novgorod and Poland, both of which are my enemies. And they are at war with the HRE, which is now my ally. I guess it's just a matter of time until we clash.

In RL. Denmark and the Order were both interested in Visby (Gotland) and competing for it. IIRC, the Order bought Northern Estonia from Denmark in 1346. They used to be allies against the Russians in the 13th century.