The Mori

[Doe3000]

I'm currently playing as the Mori in my Shogun 2 campaign. As you probably know, their faction bonuses mark them out as "Masters of the Waves" giving them superior warships. I'm currently trying to think of a strategy that could help me utilise these strengths as best as I can, and I was wondering how best to use my navies to dominate Japan. At the outset it appears that having a strong navy isn't much help when most battles will take place on land. It therefore seems as if the Mori have some of the weakest 'bonuses' of the game, along with the Hojo ability to construct castles for less koku.

I can try to take all trade routes, but most are controlled by my allies and I do not want to spark off the 'Realm Divide' just yet as my economy isn't the strongest. It seems that beyond the ability to dominate trade routes a navy isn't much use at all. I've also captured the Black Ship, but mysteriously lost it to the bottom of the ocean after a minor skirmish in which I didn't even bother using it. Any suggestions?

[arras]

Well best way to utilise your strengths is control of trade nodes. It brings enormous wealth (especially if you then trade them further) which then can give you advantage on land. You seem to have picked wrong friends. Perhaps it is time to reconsider your alliances.

Another way would be to use amphibious attacks -use your ships to struck your enemies in their backyards where they do not expect you. But that is bit more tricky and not always useful.

Also Mori vacko raiders seems to be unit liked by lot of Mori players. Use them.

[Kaiserina Kratos]

I'm currently playing as the Mori too, and it is true that navies don't get much action than land armies, but they are still very useful (at least for me). If you are worried about getting to trade nodes, then you should have gotten there on the first few turns to secure them early. The Mori's bonus makes them the most powerful in the sea, I've battled countless invasion forces containing one full stack each and sent them into the depths of Poseidon every single time. Not to mention the Mori Cannon Bune can break any enemy navy into pieces with its improved accuracy and reload rate. I didn't even have to capture the Black Ship, I just bombarded it into submission (with the help of my firebomb kobayas).

Also, choose your allies wisely. In my game, the first few turns I was at war with the Amako, then after capturing Iwami province, Ouchi clan gave me a threat of attack. So I called for peace with the Amako, waited for my backstabbing Ouchi allies to declare war on me and crushed them with impunity. I left them with only one province that was on Kyushu and called for peace again to hammer down the clans to the east. Don't depend on alliances, play with them. I did not expect the Amako, my first enemies, to become my most trusted allies until I betrayed them for a re-established alliance with the rejuvenated alliance with the Ouchi who were already carving their kingdom on Kyushu.

I don't agree that Mori and Hojo clan bonuses are useless or the weakest. They have their own disadvantages depending on a player's playstyle. But there is one thing I do believe in... the Oda have the best clan bonus of them all! Especially with theit long yari ashigaru.
Yup, that's right, the Oda have the best bonus, after that everybody else are on equal footing depending on playstyle.

[DeliCiousTZM]

i consider Mori the strongest faction in the game. With its position and units like the Mori wako raider it outplays even Oda.

-Trade nodes
-Three golden kings
-Wako raiders
http://www.twitch.tv/delicioustzm I have a broadcast here somewhere where i play a Mori campaign, if you feel like digging it up.

[Knight of Heaven]

i consider Mori the strongest faction in the game. With its position and units like the Mori wako raider it outplays even Oda.

-Trade nodes
-Three golden kings
-Wako raiders
http://www.twitch.tv/delicioustzm I have a broadcast here somewhere where i play a Mori campaign, if you feel like digging it up.

Indeed. With a strong naivy you can control the nodes, wich gives you all the money you ever need to field armies. And good quality armies.

[Altimis]

Their ships surely strongest

Their Wako is damn cheap both recruit and upkeep costs, their melee is equal to Katana samurai with means they can do killing business just fine, not to mention they can be recruit with only 1 turns! that mean you can have mass army with Wako within couple turns as soon as you can start recruit them, this is core advantage to begin with Mori.

And if you want money, raid trade node, massive income.

[Kaiserina Kratos]

Monetary's got it right with those three points. I forgot about the wako raiders and the three brothers. However, I disagree that Mori is the strongest. Oda is the strongest in my opinion, with spear-walled long yari ashigaru, I could mop down any enemy in front of me.
Seriously though, Oda has the best clan bonus, not the strongest faction, not the best starting point, but the best clan bonus.

But Mori is still my favorite faction because of this guy.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Monetary's got it right with those three points. I forgot about the wako raiders and the three brothers. However, I disagree that Mori is the strongest. Oda is the strongest in my opinion, with spear-walled long yari ashigaru, I could mop down any enemy in front of me.
Seriously though, Oda has the best clan bonus, not the strongest faction, not the best starting point, but the best clan bonus.

But Mori is still my favorite faction because of this guy.

Oda only has better ashigaru they actually start with negative clan bonuses like inpolite that gives penalities to diplomacy.
Mori Wako raiders are superior too Oda ashigaru and more cost effective. Of course Oda Bow ashigaru are still no joke. But Mori Rival Oda with its position and shot past it in economy. I have destroyed plenty of Oda as Mori and as Oda playing against a Strong Mori player i was in trouble but managed to overcome it with agents alone.

Again I think that Mori is the strongest faction in the game with one exception! Otomo vs Mori i feel favours Otomo as they can secure a defensive possition and ironically get naval superiority as(And i doubt many people know this) Mori don't have early access to Medium bunes like other factions.

[Ichon]

Any of the southern factions are in best economic position and of those factions Mori have 2 big bonus as mentioned- wako raiders and the ships. They also start with not a bad position where in early game at least they are relatively secure compared to many other clan starting positions and retain that security for awhile. Only Date, Otomo, and Shimazu are more secure in early expansion opportunities.

[Kaiserina Kratos]

Just to be clear, when I say Clan Bonus, I only mean the Clan Bonus itself, or the Clan Traits.
For example:
Oda - Improved morale for all ashigaru
Reduced recruitment costs and upkeep for ashigaru
Mori -Increased campaign map movement range for all ships
Reduced recruitment costs and upkeep for all ships
Can recruit superior ships
These are all taken from the game's encyclopedia.

So, when I compare Oda clan bonus and Mori clan bonus, I do not include starting position and Wako Raiders since they do not belong to the description mentioned above. It is not a negative clan bonus to have an impolite daimyo at the start since it is not even a Clan Bonus in the first place.

To put this simply, having better ashigaru which is very cheap and cost effective is better than having better ships which are also cheap mainly because land battles occur way more often than sea battles.

That's all. Cheers!

[Knight of Heaven]

Just to be clear, when I say Clan Bonus, I only mean the Clan Bonus itself, or the Clan Traits.
For example:
Oda - Improved morale for all ashigaru
Reduced recruitment costs and upkeep for ashigaru
Mori -Increased campaign map movement range for all ships
Reduced recruitment costs and upkeep for all ships
Can recruit superior ships
These are all taken from the game's encyclopedia.

So, when I compare Oda clan bonus and Mori clan bonus, I do not include starting position and Wako Raiders since they do not belong to the description mentioned above. It is not a negative clan bonus to have an impolite daimyo at the start since it is not even a Clan Bonus in the first place.

To put this simply, having better ashigaru which is very cheap and cost effective is better than having better ships which are also cheap mainly because land battles occur way more often than sea battles.

That's all. Cheers!

I disagree with you. On both accounts. That land battles happen more often, or that having cheap Ashigaru is more important.
Because they are already cheap to begin with, and by controling the seas, and the trade nodes mainly the silk route, as well the cotton route, gives you massive amounts of Koku, wich in turn you can field better armies then weak Ashigaru.

[DeliCiousTZM]

I disagree with you. On both accounts. That land battles happen more often, or that having cheap Ashigaru is more important.
Because they are already cheap to begin with, and by controling the seas, and the trade nodes mainly the silk route, as well the cotton route, gives you massive amounts of Koku, wich in turn you can field better armies then weak Ashigaru.

Oda can expand fast in rich territory, you can secure trade as Mori and wield better units. However the cheaper stronger ashigaru of Oda + the ninja specialty destroys weaker Mori players,Oda can also recruit their cheaper units everywhere. Making it easy for them to amass a high veteran strong general army with access to lvl 3 metsuke and ninjas early on(Metsuke lvl 3 is available to mori as well if you expand right).

In a 1v1 Head to Head you have to open 4 assassins against Oda or Ikko ikki in order to hamper them down.

[Knight of Heaven]

Oda can expand fast in rich territory, you can secure trade as Mori and wield better units. However the cheaper stronger ashigaru of Oda + the ninja specialty destroys weaker Mori players,Oda can also recruit their cheaper units everywhere. Making it easy for them to amass a high veteran strong general army with access to lvl 3 metsuke and ninjas early on(Metsuke lvl 3 is available to mori as well if you expand right).

In a 1v1 Head to Head you have to open 4 assassins against Oda or Ikko ikki in order to hamper them down.

Im aware what oda can do i played with both clans. Ashigaru cant stand against samurai why you assume the mori players are weak?!... again Why you will train Ashigaru when you can train samurais, if you have the Koku for it, even with the bonus, they are still ashigaru.
Im not talking about multiplayer, never played it and im not interested in it. Besides i doubt you can get the nodes safely as Oda if your enemy is a decent Mori player. Wich makes you field better armies more dificult.
From a sp perspective, i know that controling the nodes and the seas is essencial to get loads of money, even if you only control a few provinces. I completely destroy the Oda my last campaing with the tokugawa on Hard, and only had a few samurais fielded, against their hordes of Ashigaru. It didnt do them any good.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Im aware what oda can do i played with both clans. Ashigaru cant stand against samurai why you assume the mori players are weak?!... again Why you will train Ashigaru when you can train samurais, if you have the Koku for it, even with the bonus, they are still ashigaru.
Im not talking about multiplayer, never played it and im not interested in it. Besides i doubt you can get the nodes safely as Oda if your enemy is a decent Mori player. Wich makes you field better armies more dificult.
From a sp perspective, i know that controling the nodes and the seas is essencial to get loads of money, even if you only control a few provinces. I completely destroy the Oda my last campaing with the tokugawa on Hard, and only had a few samurais fielded, against their hordes of Ashigaru. It didnt do them any good.

as Oda i can reach the Mori opponent in less then 20 turns, good luck having a full Samurai army,expanding and paying for it all by then. I'm assuming that the Mori player is bad because out of the around Dozens i have faced, there for i feel confident making that assessment.

Most of these esteemed "Good players" decided that instead of learning from their mistakes they should just call me names Cheater,Rusher,Noob and lame because i used agents.

Most of my games are against Oda tho so i know how to stop them. Usually by agent action or favorable defensive positions.

Like Demolay said Stalin had it right. "Quantity is quality" and Oda ashigaru is cheaper quantity of higher quality. Allowing for even faster Samurai if that is ones wish. Trade nodes are great and strong, of course it isn't that hard to hamper the trade using diplomatic or military means through the AI or your own navy. That being said in twenty turns you might get two nodes up and running before Oda is knocking at your door with two-three veteran generals with veteran superior cheaper ashigaru.

[Auriel]

As already stated, the domination of the trade nodes will bring you huge wealth. A superior navy can also be a fantastic way of transporting troops up and down Japan without having to be concerned of the fleet being attacked and losing that whole stack of soldiers on board.

[Spajjder]

At the outset it appears that having a strong navy isn't much help when most battles will take place on land. It therefore seems as if the Mori have some of the weakest 'bonuses' of the game, along with the Hojo ability to construct castles for less koku.

When I play as mori i really like to play as christian. the mix between wako raiders and teppo along with some ashigaru is really nice i think.
And trade notes are really the key for any game i think.. i find eastern/northen factions quite difficult to play with since they cannot easily reach those nodes.

If youre christian you can get european trade ships which are seriously pwning everything on the sea, pluss that u get more trade routes in your ports. you get better research speed and easier to get guns.. there are some really serious difficulties playing as christians but i really like the different playstyle.

Hojo has an awesome unit, hand mortars. and cheap castles are nice too.

[Doe3000]

When I play as mori i really like to play as christian. the mix between wako raiders and teppo along with some ashigaru is really nice i think.
And trade notes are really the key for any game i think.. i find eastern/northen factions quite difficult to play with since they cannot easily reach those nodes.

If youre christian you can get european trade ships which are seriously pwning everything on the sea, pluss that u get more trade routes in your ports. you get better research speed and easier to get guns.. there are some really serious difficulties playing as christians but i really like the different playstyle.

Hojo has an awesome unit, hand mortars. and cheap castles are nice too.

After having finished my Mori campaign I regret not converting the clan to Christianity. Some of my most valuable provinces were Christian ones on Kyushu, and your Wako/Teppo strategy sounds interesting. Instead of converting though I wasted my time trying to crush Christian rebels and upstarts, and my reputation in these provinces were so bad I had to cancel Taxes to stop rebellions. Worked out fine I the end though as I managed to win.

[Doe3000]

Thanks for your help everyone. I've been finding the Wako raiders very useful in battle, especially for ambushing and sieges. They can easily storm across the walls of a poorly defended fortress while my main army distracts the enemy and capture it under their noses.

Capturing just one or two of the trade nodes has made me very rich too.

[Obi Wan Asterix]

I'm currently playing as the Mori in my Shogun 2 campaign. As you probably know, their faction bonuses mark them out as "Masters of the Waves" giving them superior warships. I'm currently trying to think of a strategy that could help me utilise these strengths as best as I can, and I was wondering how best to use my navies to dominate Japan. At the outset it appears that having a strong navy isn't much help when most battles will take place on land. It therefore seems as if the Mori have some of the weakest 'bonuses' of the game, along with the Hojo ability to construct castles for less koku.

I can try to take all trade routes, but most are controlled by my allies and I do not want to spark off the 'Realm Divide' just yet as my economy isn't the strongest. It seems that beyond the ability to dominate trade routes a navy isn't much use at all. I've also captured the Black Ship, but mysteriously lost it to the bottom of the ocean after a minor skirmish in which I didn't even bother using it. Any suggestions?

Trade, trade and trade. Protect your trade lanes and the trade nodes, don't fight on too many fronts. The trade grows every turn, and you can really become wealthy and well developed as a result.

[DeMolay]

"Why you will train Ashigaru when you can train samurais"

Because like Stalin said : "Quantity is quality in itself "

Vs AI it doesn't matter to have anything better than ashis even in legendary mode since you can beat any ai army with spearwall on a hill or simply using luring tactics ( when you attack , ambush all your army and lure units with your gen one by one ..) or else winning sieges easily with ashis (so many tricks there) , besides you can take any basic empty fort (ai will rarely defend them...) with one bow ash ...any stronghold with 2 bow ash etc(ai has a habit of throwing everything at the players .. and there are many ways to slow them down )


what matters is how fast you can spam troops and while using ambushes (to get "behind" the ai army so you can strike their castles without needing to fight their main army ) & rear invasions , how quickly you can crush as many ai castles as you can in limited time .. this is how you win legendary within 40 turns

So with that strategy in mind , having money for your agents is far more important than wasting kokus on samurais (overkill vs ai and usually a waste of time ) , it's all about flooding the ai enemy with so many threats that it simply cannot solve them in time