"S2TW and FOTS" or "S2TW or FOTS". A boolean dilemna... and 1,2 questions about FOTS

[Yerevan]

Hello, I searched on the forum but there is something I still doesn't get :

I bought S2TW first and then paid 10 e to buy ROTS as an extension. Now I want to play FOTS. I looked on steam in the downloadable content to buy FOTS and can't find it as such.

The only avalaible option to me is buying the whole shogun 2- Fall of the samurai as a stand-alone.

Since they are both built on the same engine I feel like I have to pay shogun 2 twice just to play an extension of the original game. Is it normal ?

Oh, and while I'm at it and since the price makes it a bigger decision : is FOTSreally worth buying ?

Is it less player-centered than S2TW. Is the campaign less linear ? I mean how does the CAI behave ?Is it just a "bigger factions eats the smaller ones" and "There can be only one" campaign ?

Are the generals and daymios made less uniform and do they have a little depth as characters ? Is it possible to feel some attachment to your generals (like in RTW where I really liked some of them because of theit "bloodthirsty" oor "crazy" traits) ?

Do the ai generals and daymios survice longer than the S2TW so the player can have a favourite lifetime ennemy (don't know how to translate that part in english / I mean that in RTW I could observe some of the ai general's evolution until I was oppposed to them and sometime after i beat them they would come back with a bigger army, etc...).

In S2TW, in all my campaigns,there is a constant turn over of the ai generals & daymios. They will get 2,3 rarely 4 stars and then, do something stupid and die miserably. But the mods i play (and wich actually greatly improve some aspects of the game) might be the culprits for that since they increase the grrison's side.

[Welsh Dragon]

Short answer, yes I feel that FOTS is worth it.

Long answer:

FOTS is essentially a new game, rather than an expansion like ROTS, so you should take that into account when looking at the price. It might be built on the same engine as S2TW, but alot has changed:

The campaign map has been redone. It's larger and now covers an additonal island, plus there are new areas such as some of the islands that in S2 have trade nodes to fight over. Also each year is now 24 turns (6 turns a season) instead of 4. This can have a huge effect, as an army caught in enemy territory in Winter is going to face up to 6 turns of attrition, instead of 1. So you really have to plan around that winter period. (A number of players seem to fight Spring - Autumn and then use Winter to rebuild and consolidate your positions.)

Traditional Vs Modern Units: Do you stick to the old ways or rush to get new technology, or field an army of both. Firearms are more important in this period, but it's quite possible for an early modern army to get slaughtered by a traditional army, as I've found out the hard way.

Imperial or Shogunate: While you can choose to go it alone as with the original game, you can also champion one of two factions and end up being the vanguard of that faction. What this means is that if for example you go Imperial, when you reach the Realm Divide point all Imperial clans will unite under the Imperial banner (basically they will all be allies and so you won't have to fight them as you fight the Shogunate.) All clans start off as either Imperial or Shogun, but you can switch sides if you want to before Realm Divide. The AI can also switch sides, which can lead to some tricky backstabbing happening.

Navy: Naval combat is quite different. Boarding is a lot less important and a lot more dangerous. Also navies can help win land battles, because if they are close enough on the campaign map they can provide devestating fire support to your armies on land. Ships can also bombard buildings and armies on the campaign map, but can also be fired upon by coastal batteries (high level military ports) suffering attrition damage.

AI: While I can't say this for certain, to me at least it seems like the AI has improved. Or at least a Hard campaign in FOTS seems more challenging than a Hard campaign in S2.

Because it's essentially a new game (built on the same engine) you won't find FOTS under the DLC for Shogun 2. Try searching for Fall of the Samural in Steam.

To sum up, if you have the money to buy it and take into account that it's closer to a new game than an expansion, then I personally think FOTS is worth buying.

Hope that helps. All the Best,

Welsh Dragon.

[Yerevan]

To Welsh Dragon

Well, yes, it helps :-)

to the monetary : yes I kind of regret I bought ROTS. Yet, a deepened allegiance system applied to the sengoku era could have enhanced the strategic options a lot. I mean, that's how the vassal system should work when you conquer a province, instead of the dull "resistance to the invader" system.... It would have kept ai and player from steamrolling the whole japan.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Buy two copies of FOTS, because that is how much its worth. CA should pay you to play ROTS.

[Laniere]

Buy two copies of FOTS, because that is how much its worth. CA should pay you to play ROTS.

Someday, someone should show a legendary campaign in RoTS...

[Yerevan]

Someday, someone should show a legendary campaign in RoTS...

What do you mean Laniere ? Did you like ROTS ?

About FOTS, I started a campaign so I can try to answer to my own question.

I think the map is more like prvious TW's maps. Much more space gives better strategic challenge. Also, mountains doesn't have the vanilla awful colors. Some might find theem too small, though, but it feels more like Japan actually is. The human interface and cards are beautiful, more realistic, etc... But I don't like the new units appearance. In this game they have baggy trousers, I would have liked them slim ! (joking)

As for the gameplay, I'm positively surprised. I used to dislike modern era wars but there's something very nice in the modern vs traditionnal warlikes clash ! Beside, the economic, technologic and war supply things are simulated in a simple way.

And for the first time in a total war game, I feel interested in the naval part. So, yes, to my POV spending a restaurant dinner price equivalent in FOTS might have been a good idea.

[SturmChurro]

Hello, I searched on the forum but there is something I still doesn't get :

I bought S2TW first and then paid 10 e to buy ROTS as an extension. Now I want to play FOTS. I looked on steam in the downloadable content to buy FOTS and can't find it as such.

The only avalaible option to me is buying the whole shogun 2- Fall of the samurai as a stand-alone.

Since they are both built on the same engine I feel like I have to pay shogun 2 twice just to play an extension of the original game. Is it normal ?

Oh, and while I'm at it and since the price makes it a bigger decision : is FOTSreally worth buying ?

Is it less player-centered than S2TW. Is the campaign less linear ? I mean how does the CAI behave ?Is it just a "bigger factions eats the smaller ones" and "There can be only one" campaign ?

Are the generals and daymios made less uniform and do they have a little depth as characters ? Is it possible to feel some attachment to your generals (like in RTW where I really liked some of them because of theit "bloodthirsty" oor "crazy" traits) ?

Do the ai generals and daymios survice longer than the S2TW so the player can have a favourite lifetime ennemy (don't know how to translate that part in english / I mean that in RTW I could observe some of the ai general's evolution until I was oppposed to them and sometime after i beat them they would come back with a bigger army, etc...).

In S2TW, in all my campaigns,there is a constant turn over of the ai generals & daymios. They will get 2,3 rarely 4 stars and then, do something stupid and die miserably. But the mods i play (and wich actually greatly improve some aspects of the game) might be the culprits for that since they increase the grrison's side.

FoTS is definitely worth buying, even if you have to wait until a sale. It is a great game. Really worth it full price. Lots of things are improved.

You can play as a Shogunate faction and fight for the Shogun, an Imperial faction and fight for the emperor, or decide to go independent and fight, well everyone. Not to mention, you can change your allegiance and turn on your brothers. Lots of different ways to play through.

Daimyos and generals will really never die unless you lose them in a battle, it is 16 turns per year.

[Stath's]

I also want to know if it is worth it to but FOTS.

My primary concern is the number of units. Are there really only 39? They are too few aren't they?

[Welsh Dragon]

I also want to know if it is worth it to but FOTS.

My primary concern is the number of units. Are there really only 39? They are too few aren't they?

I'm not sure how many units in total there are, but I haven't found that a problem. In Shogun 2 in an army you'll probably have soldiers with swords, spears, naginata, bows, and matchlock, plus there may be up to three varieties of each (ashigaru, samurai and Monk). In FOTS most units have firearms, so you do tend to field more of the same units, a lot of armies will in large part be Line Infantry or equivalents, but there's still a variety between clans (e.g. in my Tosa campaign I had a lot of Red Bear Infantry after a certain point.) Between the modern and traditional units, and the clan specific, allegience specific and imported units (Royal Marines, US Marines and the French ones) there's enough units I find.

[Stath's]

thanks!

[Welsh Dragon]

Happy to help.

[Sakanade]

RotS feels very, very empty.
There are almost no units, just some attendants, samurai and monks, that's it.

FotS is easily the best Total War to date (gameplay mechanics wise).
it's what Empire and Napoleon should have been.
I also very much like the Clan Development, to choose to either stay traditional or go modern.