(updated 2/26/2019) My new and improved AI errr 3.0

[napoleonic]

how can i explain this... the simpler version is not the full package. the full package only works with HURB.

the simpler version is watered down for the sake of compatibility with EVERYTHING and only includes the AI and not all the small changes you can do in core files to influence the AI.

so if you want then you can use the simpler version but it's not as good as the full package.

don't get it wrong, I appreciate your effort, but IMO CAI mod shouldn't need to tamper with other aspects of the base game/mod.

speaking about that, what will be the difference when using full HURB package and just the basic AI mod? especially for a HURB game.

I also noticed that you don't provide descr_faction_standing like other CAI, so it's rather curious as to which faction standing file is intended to be used with yours, AFAIK it can quite significantly change the CAI behavior.

[beermugcarl]

my thoughts on faction standings is that the modders generally mod in how they want the factions to act towards each other (i.e in third age, for the orcs to attack the humans and in hurb, scotland to hate england) so i didn't want to tamper with that as that would be imprinting a new style of gameplay.

the ONLY things i change in the core files are things that affect the AI. for instance, giving them more vision in the traits section allows them to make better decisions. labeling boats differently makes them more confident with navies.

EDIT: as you seem interested let me go into more detail.

essentially the AI main files are campaign_AI_db which controls the AI's actions during war

campaign_db which controls the numbers used for calculations.

descr_diplomacy how the ai react to the players actions

faction_standing how the ai react to each others actions


now, the extra ones i include are traits and units, the changes i have made here is simply the labeling of the navel units and traits to give the ai 'hidden bonuses' like huge increases to vision.


NEW VERSION RELEASED. JUST A COMPATIBILITY PATCH, NOTHING EXCITING

[napoleonic]

are you still working this AI? I want to report that in HURB rebel AI is just stacking armies but not attacking factions, they do defend their land though... but also that the rebel is now quite too strong for the smaller factions like venice, georgia, norway, serbia... they are rather unable to expand and risked getting crushed by bigger factions... I'm not really seeing AI allies helping like you advertised...

btw, does campaign db file which you stated control autoresolve calculation affects AI vs AI battles?

[beermugcarl]

are you still working this AI? I want to report that in HURB rebel AI is just stacking armies but not attacking factions, they do defend their land though... but also that the rebel is now quite too strong for the smaller factions like venice, georgia, norway, serbia... they are rather unable to expand and risked getting crushed by bigger factions... I'm not really seeing AI allies helping like you advertised...

btw, does campaign db file which you stated control autoresolve calculation affects AI vs AI battles?

yes it control AI vs AI.

yeah i noticed that with the rebels, i wasn't sure if it was money scripting on HURB's end or possibly the fact that the rebels see multiple enemy's (as they are ofc at war with EVERYONE) and start getting upset.

It's probably the latter. in which case i will be working on it very soon...

as far as allies helping you out, that relies on a few factors. unfortunately it is being hindered by the rebels.
I did previously think it was a hurb issue but im working on resolving it.

[Andytheplatypus]

MISC MODS (should work with anything) http://www.mediafire.com/?7lsb93bg895dp0y

On the first page

[napoleonic]

for HURB I'd suggest you tone down the rebels so that smaller factions can actually expand than being confined to their starting land and later crushed by bigger neighbouring factions.

about the auto resolve, what exactly do you change? and when you said it affect AI vs AI, what exactly do you mean by that?

another suggestion is to observe gracul AI and borrow it's feature to improve yours, because IMHO it still the best AI to be used with HURB due to the fact that the entire map is very balanced already, gracul AI make the entire world unpredictable throughout campaign in a very good way, while campaigns with other AIs including yours and soulsons' tend to go the predictable way.

[beermugcarl]

that's because graculs ai encourages the ai to go for full blown constant war which arguably is best for the 'total war' game series but personally i feel is bad because it makes it far too easy to play against.

I actually believe the rebels is a HURB issue, not an ai issue. but i've been messing around with my new version anyway.

[napoleonic]

can you upload the new version?

[beermugcarl]

can you upload the new version?

I can do when i'm happy with it. should be within the next week.

[Jurand of Cracow]

I can do when i'm happy with it. should be within the next week.

Hi Beermugcarl,
I've just finished one game with Bellum Crucis - unfortunatelly it has a weak balance at vh/vh, and some problems with BAI. I would like now to try HURB with your modification. Could you upload the version you're testing now? Even if you are not 100% happy with it .
Or maybe I can start with the present version and when your're happy with the new one, I can change it? (I mean: will it be save-compatible?)
best
Jurand

[napoleonic]

I know you said you don't want to create your own faction standings... but since SS default AIs came with their own faction standings, we are rather left confused with which one is intended to be used with your CAI.

[napoleonic]

current AI in HURB have too strong rebels so that HURB small factions unable to expand, venice, armenia and cs usually the first 3 to be endangered species .

[Jurand of Cracow]

Yes, I know about the rebels, and also about sudden influx of money. I can cope with both - tough luck for the small, money as a home rule I'll give away to weaker and far-and-away nations. Nevertheless, I'd like to check this Beermugcarl's file.
BTW, is RBAI included in the HURB, or I need to install it additionally?
Maybe you can hint me also about two issues:
- BGR induces players not to let any army moving without an FM - they would desert instantly (I dealt with it building transition-forts inside the country, what is also historical, I suppose). Is this mechanism implemented also in HURB?
- what about incursions in the foreign lands without FM? again in BGR you wouldn't attack anybody outside the borders since the FL would get nasty traits. Is it in HURB?
Jurand

[napoleonic]

HURB does not include BGR 4-5, max you get is BGR 2

[Jurand of Cracow]

Sorry, I was probably not precise. I know there's no BGR IV and V in HURB. But I want to know if there're mechanisms which compensate for this lack. Anyway, I'm going to ask this question in a clear manner in the HURB tread.
BTW - I think a name for this AI Project would be useful (BeerHurbAI ?)

[beermugcarl]

can anyone actually confirm that the rebel thing is only with my ai? and not just a hurb issue?

I ran some tests and for me at least its hurb irrelevant of the ai.

anyway, here is the changelog so far.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

included RBAI as default (but not the scripts)
removed changed capital costs (caused a ctd)
made difficulty scale better via building costs (for the ai only)
increased seiging costs
removed slave recruitment buildings at game start
increased starting armies for venice, abassid, georgia, norway, armenia
updated AI to be a bit more aggressive early
including a factions_standing file in HURB version

an inflation script (but only a basic one)

if anybody wants to make recommendations, now is the time.
i don't want to create a new version of HURB (that's the mod titanium's job) but i want to tweak it so smoothness and playability.


how are the auto_odds?

[napoleonic]

I don't know about everybody else but I have to say that I lost interest if you start tampering with the base mod that much.

[beermugcarl]

I don't know about everybody else but I have to say that I lost interest if you start tampering with the base mod that much.

hmm fair enough.
Its hard to try and improve something when you are only allowed to tamper with 4 files though.

which part of the change log upsets you? all the changes only affect the AI and not actually the gameplay for the human player.

[napoleonic]

made difficulty scale better via building costs (for the ai only)

removed slave recruitment buildings at game start

increased starting armies for venice, abassid, georgia, norway, armenia



1. I don't think the AI need any more money help... they need to be more aggressive
2. slave building requirement? what do you mean?
3. it doesn't matter if they are not aggressive, which is also tied to the starting alliance/war setting set by RW, but then again changing the starting diplomacy can upset the whole campaign balance.

I think for HURB we just need an improved gracul AI or such... if you get what I mean here... nevertheless... I think you better start developing and tweaking the kind of thing you stated above for Titanium, that way you don't have to tamper with the 'base mod' later

seeing as RW also seem to lost interest in HURB itself I think we can all say that Titanium is clearly the future of SS (no mean disrespect to other submods and their makers) so I think you can start that.

I can supply you with info from my HURB campaigns... what I've seen with all the AI including yours.

1. norway always locked in their little corner at scandinavia and that small island north of UK.
2. Sicily not aggressive enough toward anything else but the area of that once carthago.
3. Abassid never attacked the Seljuq -due to them set as allied- same with Serbia and Rum toward the Roman (but as I said changing this will upset the balance)
4. cumans and kiev are usually having trouble with their stretched empire.
5. volga bulgar also rather passive.
6. denmark always far less aggressive than in vanilla.
7. venice underpowered -not just the AI but unit wise they are the weakest italian in HURB-

* I never tested this but what if you make all factions use naval invasions? I'd love to see france or hre invade UK or the cuman invade anatolia or georgia invade balkan for example, is this possible? in vanilla game and older SS I and some of us here I'm sure often seen portugal/spain invade england but that's just it, such thing never happened at the eastern side of the map.

if you can address all that in Titanium then we will perhaps don't need SS 7.0

[beermugcarl]

hes 'lost interest' because hes working on titanium, as am i lol.

2) removed the ability for the rebels to recruit from the start so they don't stack units, they can still build these buildings and recruit at a later point but probably from turn 20 onwards so that solves the issue.
1) its not giving them more help... its.. hard to explain... lol... basically it lets them build buildings even when bankrupt but only on harder difficulties.

3) the starting armies changes the aggression, im seriously only changing it by a few units. venice for instance gets 2 units and gets its army shifted to venice.
thats why ive done with these small factions, shift the army into one force which REALLY REALLY helps the ai with early expansion. and give one or two more melee units for taking cities. no biggy.






gracul ai is great if you want constant warfare but not for a balanced game.