Oversetimated terror threat
The terrorthreat seems hugely overestimated and the solutions is many times much more harmful than the actual problem.
It also seems like the ones in charge doesn't really know what they are talkning about.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/08...abs/print.html
It seems like the vague threat of terrorism is the new U.S archenemy after the demise of the Soviet Union.
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
New? And what rock have you been living under the past seven years?
Senator
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
how can you overestimate the lose of life if it did happen
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
Are you saying a life has infinte value?Originally Posted by hunter260859
People are going to die that is inevitable and we simply don't have the resources to save everyone.
With the terrorism threat the government has spent several billion dollars and caused inconvineince for millions of people.
It's also very possible that it hasn't helped at all (The wars have probably only made the sitaution worse).
The results simly doesn't justify the huge costs for "homeland security".
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
I personally am willing to suffer 'inconvenience' if it saves lives.
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
Let's take the recent foiled terrorattempt in England. It caused huge delays in air traffic, if we say that we had a million people who's planes were three hours late. It would waste three million hours which is about three hundred years of time wasted. But because of the "terror threat" everything is moving much more slowly which adds up to quite a lot.
And now we're even disregarding the huge monetary costs, if we want to save lifes we could use the money much more ecomomically.
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
What is money for if not to spend? And lives are a damn fine thing to buy.
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
When you buy something what you're really doing is not buying something else. If "homeland security" was free it wouldn't bug me but it's not it costs huge amounts of money. This money could be better spent.
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
I can think of few better commodities than lives.
Civitate
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
Nothing is free in life and as Ferret basically said what is the point of having money if not going to spend it and lives are worth the money spent..I much rather deal with delays and have a measure of security then to speed thru the airport and have nothing. Imagine a family member of yours on one of those airplanes wouldnt you be angry if you knew there were somethings goverment could do to lower the chance of such an event happening but did nothing?
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
Overestimated? Muahahahaa you need to listen to the scores of geo-political, military (often high-ranking generals) and other "experts" who say that there is no international terrorist threat whatsoever.
You see the fake terrorist threat is here to frighten the worlds populations into allowing the process of Globalization and the complete erorison of civil liberties to take place. This tactic is based off of the Hegelian dialect but but simply, it is problem-reaction-solution.
Create the problem to scare the **** out of us untill we demand for a solution to prevent it from happening again and then offer the solution (something that will benifit you).
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
Thats right, give in to their tactics by allowing your last remaining civil liberties to erode away Dont Troll!
Last edited by Belisarius; August 21, 2006 at 08:31 AM.
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
The civil liberty not to die. My family flew back from Spain two days after the incident, and as a result they were three hours late. I hardly feel civil liberties being eroded. ****, take it as the civil liberty to get into a book for an hour or two.
Darkness is the light
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
You hardly feel it - and then it's too late. Darius does not only mean inconvenience, but erosion of democratic rights. There is no problem with transport security, especially airport security. But it is possible that this is going to devolve into background checks, biometric profiling and heavy surveillance including unwarranted surveillance, which is happening all over the place. Troublesome. Intelligence gathering on the general citizenry is troublesome.
Take a look at how democratic systems are structured. It is all based on checks and balances. Why is this so? Because the people who constituted these systems had experiences from the old days, when a King's word was law. These checks and balances are in place because governments are not to be trusted. This is the basic assumption on which every democracy on this planet rests on. If we want to talk about saving democracy, we need to talk about preventing govenments to accumulate too much power, and we must make sure that this power is checked. This is the real responsibility of citizens.
Emergencies like terrorism are tests for the steadfastness of democracy. The danger for democracy and freedom comes from within, not without. Terrorists may despise our freedom, but there are people amongst ouselves who despise our freedom even more. "Terror has never brought down democracies, parliaments have brought down a few."
This danger is real. Democracy is not foolproof. Place excessive power in a government's hands and it is sure to abuse it. No matter how grave the danger is, we have to stand tall against domestic attempts to undermine basic rights. And if not having a police state means that a couple of people die under the guns of terrorists, so be it. People are all the time talking about placing their lives on the line for the freedom of their country and families, maybe it is time they start doing it.
"The Sleeping Dragon"
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
How is this the case????
In the UK people refused to allow the police to detain suspects without trial for a prolonged period of time - something i personally wouldn't have minded. As for the loss of freedom, what a joke!! I know of nothing that has removed any of my freedoms (except wearing a belt through security checks). I think a more realistic loss of freedom would be the destruction of the aviation inductry if the terrorists succeed in another plot. The abiltiy to travel almost anywhere is perhaps the biggest freedom we have - and that is what is being attacked!
Mangod of Earth
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
Every human life is worth about 1.5 million dollars. It gets less the older you get because you cash in on that every paycheck.... Tho some are worth much more, and some less.
"For the humble doily is indeed the gateway to ULTIMATE COSMIC POWER!"
~Sidmen, Member of the House of Wilpuri, Patronized by pannonian
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
The very idea that we should not put in anti-terrorism methods so it would save money is insane in both common sense and factual truth.
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
Sorry to interrupt but I'm glad we have people like Bush to prevent us from these attacks. In case you don't remember the terrorists in this latest plot were already attempting a dry run when they were arrested. It wouldn't have been long before disaster struck. Therefore, I am glad that we are remaining vigilant in both our resolve and our funding so that future 9/11s can be avoided.
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
And how much do you guys think that the defenses of terrorism costs?
I think the war in Afghanistan has added up to about 100billion dollars now, the war in Iraq has cost about 400billion (Although it is arguable if you should count Iraq as anti-terrorism). And that's not counting the thousands of americans and the tens of thousands foreigners who have died. And that is only the direct cost.
The various regulations in airline trafic is also something that can be counted in billions. You can never know if these measures were economical as they're government measures, the airlines should handle security themselves after all they should have the biggest incentive to prevent it.
Then we have the different constraints in your liberty like being incarcerated without trial.
Also it is annoying that people like Bush says that the terrorist do these things beacuse they hate our western life style. They don't give a **** about how we live, they liked us when the U.S helped them against the Sovitets in Afghanistan. What they don't like is the U.S. foreing policy esepecially that in the middle-east.
It feels to much like terrorism is the new communism.
Civitate
Re: Oversetimated terror threat
Afganistan imo is worth the 100billion because it dealt directly with a terrorist haven Iraq however is not. Deaths in Iraq were avoidable because it should have never happened but Afganistan? Sorry I dont really care, Im sorry if civilizan died but the fact remains it was a threat serving as a base for Bin Laden types of the world. The failure here by the west is to ensure no such havens ever develop, something that is far less costly and far more helpful to the people of that would be haven since it comes in the form of economic aid rather then bombs and missiles. I would like to think we've learn the lesson that preventive measures are cheaper long term and more beneficial to everyone involved since it doesnt involve warfare but unfortunately I dont think we've learned that lesson yet.
We've seen that rather simple things could have prevented 9/11 as some of us have said the money (even when some of it is wasted, it is after all the sideeffect of goverment...waste) spent if it prevent things like this since it saves lives and possibly bigger economic loses. To put it in perspective we spent 100billion after the fact to respond to an attack that cost over 30 billion economic loses (in NYC, not counting the pentagon) and the lives of several thousand people. 130+ billion dollars AFTER the fact, I rather spent a few billion before occurences and lower the risk of these things happening.The various regulations in airline trafic is also something that can be counted in billions. You can never know if these measures were economical as they're government measures, the airlines should handle security themselves after all they should have the biggest incentive to prevent it.
Then we have the different constraints in your liberty like being incarcerated without trial.
They didnt 'like' us we were simply useful to them as they were to us. Their direct enemy was the russians, our enemy was the russians...the old saying the enemy of my enemy is my friend. If you listen to the rhetoric that comes from radical clerics and even people like Bin Laden himself western lifestyle is indeed part of the problem to them, in many ways we are the apple that dangles from the tree tempting THEIR way of life. We see this that in heavily religious islamic states how it attempts to stamp out any western influence in their culture, way of living etc.Also it is annoying that people like Bush says that the terrorist do these things beacuse they hate our western life style. They don't give a **** about how we live, they liked us when the U.S helped them against the Sovitets in Afghanistan. What they don't like is the U.S. foreing policy esepecially that in the middle-east.
And if it is...so what? Russian style communism wasnt exactly something good but I would say terrorism (ie islamic fanaticism) is more in line with facism then with communism.It feels to much like terrorism is the new communism.
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