Lord of Light = Ahura Mazda? (Zoroastrianism)

[Engie]

Has anyone else made the connection between the practices of those who worship the Lord of Light in GRR Martins A Song of Ice and Fire and Zoroastrianism?

Based on what I've read into it the connection does seem pretty strong. In ASoIaF the Lord of Light, R'hllor, does share many traits of Ahura Mazda (the chief deity of Zoroastrianism), one example being the "good" God, Ahura Mazda, (R'hllor in ASoIaF) being locked in eternal battle with the "evil" God, Angra Mainyu (the Great Other in ASoIaF). Another example of the connection between the real world religion of Zoroastrianism and the fictional religion of R'hllor worship in ASoIaF is the reverence of fire.

Are there any other connections between real world religions and the fictional religions in ASoIaF that anyone can think of?

[Rhaegal]

I don't know anything about Zoroastrianism, but when I read the books, i thought it was somewhat analogous to christianity, looking at the religion from a darker perspective.

[Engie]

I don't know anything about Zoroastrianism, but when I read the books, i thought it was somewhat analogous to christianity, looking at the religion from a darker perspective.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam actually took some influences from Zoroastrianism. Both religions are monotheistic and Christianity/Judaism/Islam as well as Zoroastrianism have a 'saviour' who will come and defeat the 'evil', in ASoIaF this can be seen in the representation of the Azor Ahai who will come and drive back the darkness. So I can see why you could see the connection there between R'hllor and Christianity; because Christianity actually shares some similarities with Zoroastrianism.

[Mount Suribachi]

GRRM himself has said that it was based upon Zoroastrianism. Despite this, a lot of people who have a dislike of Christianity, such as Rhaegal above, go "I don't like Christianity" and "I don't like Melisandre", therefore Christianity = Rh'lorr.

As for the others, The Seven is pretty obviously a polytheistic medieval Roman Catholicism.

[Rhaegal]

Rhaegal above, go "I don't like Christianity" and "I don't like Melisandre", therefore Christianity = Rh'lorr.

You should not assume- you will make an --- out of u and me.

[Mount Suribachi]

You should not assume- you will make an --- out of u and me.

If that isn't your line of reasoning, then I apologise. I see it a lot, and its one of my pet hates (along with people trying to apply 21st century western liberal ideals to a medieval feudalistic society).

[Pinkie Pie]

GRRM himself has said that it was based upon Zoroastrianism. Despite this, a lot of people who have a dislike of Christianity, such as Rhaegal above, go "I don't like Christianity" and "I don't like Melisandre", therefore Christianity = Rh'lorr.

As for the others, The Seven is pretty obviously a polytheistic medieval Roman Catholicism.

Or we could be using our powers of perception to make that assumption. Personally I do not read and listen to everything that G.R.R. Martin does and therefore do not know where he gets his inspirations from. I made the connection of Christianity because they also hold a certain reverence for fire and believe that death by it was a way to purify the soul.

[Mount Suribachi]

Or we could be using our powers of perception to make that assumption. Personally I do not read and listen to everything that G.R.R. Martin does and therefore do not know where he gets his inspirations from. I made the connection of Christianity because they also hold a certain reverence for fire and believe that death by it was a way to purify the soul.

Its not really a tenet of Christian belief though. Whilst it was unfortunately practised during the inquisition and then the reformation, it has no theological justification other than cruelty and spite. And of all the pagan practices condemned in the Old Testament, none is more heavily condemned than human sacrifice.

[Pinkie Pie]

Its not really a tenet of Christian belief though. Whilst it was unfortunately practised during the inquisition and then the reformation, it has no theological justification other than cruelty and spite. And of all the pagan practices condemned in the Old Testament, none is more heavily condemned than human sacrifice.

Unortunately I know very little of Zoastrianism so could not make the connection between them two. I I had more knowledge of that religion I masy have come to the conclusion that it was used as a basis for R'hllor but without it I had to make an assumption based on what I know.

[ccllnply]

I made the connection of Christianity because they also hold a certain reverence for fire and believe that death by it was a way to purify the soul.

I don't think there is any truth in that at all.

As Suribachi said, burning people in the past was mainly down to cruelty and spite. In the real Catholic church, the main reference to fire would be in Pentecost, and even then it wasn't about the fire but more about the guiding light of the Holy Spirit which it represents, which I suppose you could say is similar to R'hollor. In no way is death by fire seen as purifying the soul

Followers of R'hollor use fire as a form of human sacrifice, and use it in what you might call dark magic or fortune telling which are all condemned by Christ's teachings.

[Pinkie Pie]

I don't think there is any truth in that at all.

As Suribachi said, burning people in the past was mainly down to cruelty and spite. In the real Catholic church, the main reference to fire would be in Pentecost, and even then it wasn't about the fire but more about the guiding light of the Holy Spirit which it represents, which I suppose you could say is similar to R'hollor. In no way is death by fire seen as purifying the soul

Followers of R'hollor use fire as a form of human sacrifice, and use it in what you might call dark magic or fortune telling which are all condemned by Christ's teachings.

Fire in Christianity is a symbol of purification and light, and is often equated with the Holy Ghost. "John answered, saying unto all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latches of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire." Luke 3:16

The burning of someone alive was not a method of torture but rather a last ditch attempt to purify their souls and save them from damnation.

[Mount Suribachi]

Fire in Christianity is a symbol of purification and light, and is often equated with the Holy Ghost. "John answered, saying unto all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latches of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire." Luke 3:16

The burning of someone alive was not a method of torture but rather a last ditch attempt to purify their souls and save them from damnation.

PP, the reference to fire there refers to the coming of the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost, when tongues of flame appeared above the disciples heads - although they were not burned, just as when God appeared to Moses in the burning bush, the bush was not consumed. Fire is symbolic of the Holy Ghost in the NT, but to use that to justify burning people alive was terrible theology, and unspeakably cruel. Unfortunately it was an age of bad theology and cruelty.

[Prophet1331]

And The Drowned God religion which has some similarities with Norse Mythology, like The Watery Halls of the Drowned god being similar to Valhalla (Both are places where dead warrior feast and are rewarded for being strong in battle).

[Korpskog]

And The Drowned God religion which has some similarities with Norse Mythology, like The Watery Halls of the Drowned god being similar to Valhalla (Both are places where dead warrior feast and are rewarded for being strong in battle).

There is actually a lot from nordic mythology that can be translated into Westeros, not only into the religion of the drowned god.

Ragnarok is a event that marks the end of the world or the final battle between the gods and the titans. Before the world is swallowed by the sea there is a three year fimbulwinter. Also there is a strong resemblence between Baldr (son of Oden) and Azor Ahai since his death marks the begining of the final battle between good and evil. Baldr is brought back from hel and is one of the few surviving gods and takes up odens place as ruler of the gods.

[Pyres Δt Varanasi]

Angra Mainyu is the same as Ahriman right. And Ahura Mazda is also known as Ohrmazd.

[Karazor]

people i would ask you please stop generalizing all cristians , do not use the word "christians" when you talk about the inquisition, they were the catholic inquisition and they happen because of the corrupt pharisee structure of the catholic church, because let's not forget that there are orthodox christians , reformed christians and protestant christians, and hey there were also some pagans that killed and said it was their right because the christian god was weak , but let's not forget there are diffrent kinds pagans and not all are the same , so please when you refer to the inquisition please say catholic inquisition

and in orthodox christianity we don't believe in cremation , burning alive or any kind of burning , only instance where we use fire is in lighting candles for the dead

[Pinkie Pie]

I apologize for placing all christians into one catagory however my point is still proven, Fire is not considered evil in any christain fate but rather a symbol of light and purity.

[Karazor]

ideed, but burning someone alive is something the ortodox christians are against o we are against burning of the dead also , i'm attending a Ortodox Theologic High school and ideed light and warmth and in some cases fire are asosiated with god , in my dogmatic theology teacher's view he bellives that heaven and God are the same and that God is a infinite light of warmth and tranquility and he says that hell isn't boiling lava , lakes of fire , masochist demons bu instead he belives that hell is darkness, cold and lonely darkness for eternity , were heaven is God and he is eternal light and warmth and tranquility kinda like How Rhlor is the god of fire and light (heaven in this case) and the Other is cold draknes (hell)

[Toho]

I apologize for placing all christians into one catagory however my point is still proven, Fire is not considered evil in any christain fate but rather a symbol of light and purity.

as much as Zoroastrians who have/had grand temples and Ziggurats dedicated to fire worshiping? yea... not even close.

[Pinkie Pie]

Unortunately I know very little of Zoastrianism so could not make the connection between them two. I I had more knowledge of that religion I masy have come to the conclusion that it was used as a basis for R'hllor but without it I had to make an assumption based on what I know.

as much as Zoroastrians who have/had grand temples and Ziggurats dedicated to fire worshiping? yea... not even close.

Oh wow I am ever so sorry Toho, how could I not make a connection between a religion I know nothing about and R'hllor?