Sliders for Turns

[Caelifer_1991]

Yeah it takes more than simply adding a slider to make your idea possible, even feasible, let alone popular.
But I'm sure you can prove this by trying to add a slider, then designing the game where the actions of said slider changes a huge amount of the game's dynamics in a predicatble and scaled fashion. Then somehow have absolutely no need to exhaustively test out whether this change in scale actually works.
Doesn't sound so simple to me then...

Well it should, because it is simple, and wouldn't take much effort on their part at all.

[The Roman Republic]

Would be pointless extra work as CA would then have configure all the stats for each turn per year option.

Plus it's most likey there will be a file that can be modded,

[Tim_Ward]

Ah, right.

It's a good point, but I think that slower movement speeds for units tend to make the game more granular. For example, if you made it so an army could cover in a single turn the amount of ground it could realistically cover in a year then what you have is a situation where an army in northern Gaul could, in a single turn, move down into Italy and besiege Rome (not saying CA will do this, just an example). More realistic movement speeds over more turns mean you can intercept that army as it moves. Basically, you have more space to make moves and counter moves to react to the enemies movement.

Also, "you"

[Caelifer_1991]

I find it funny that one of the reasons cited that this would not be a good idea is that it would increase CA's workload too much. I made a 4 turns per year mod for E:TW by myself (included scaled movement, build times, etc) in an afternoon and I'm not even a coder, hell I'm not even a proper modder. I'm quite sure that CA could also do it in an afternoon and to a better standard than me without any difficulty, especially since they are actually qualified in the field. Different start dates might take a bit longer but I still doubt it'd increase their work load by any notable degree.

[Clock]

Well, I wouldn't say no to a slider for say 1-4 turns per year, but I wouldn't expect it either. CA will obviously choose a turn system they feel best balances the campaign gameplay. If you adjust that system, then as others have said, movement and building systems will also have to be adjusted accordingly to maintain balance. Also, I'm not really sure how more turns per year would create a 'deeper' campaign experience. The experience would be the same, it would just take longer to move armies or build things, and as a result you might just find yourself clicking the end turn button a lot faster and individual turns would become less meaningful.

I think it's more important that turns are worthwhile and important, so you spend more time deliberating over your actions. I know that I found in FotS, which has something like 16 turns per year (?) due to the small time frame, that a lot of 'turns' were largely meaningless and spent simply moving an army from A to B or waiting for a construction to complete. It didn't give the campaign any more depth. So yeah, I think we need to look at turns beyond simply movement, building and the age of Generals, and more whether multiple turn systems represent a challenge to the player with key decisions to make, or if it's just more turns for, well, the sake of more turns.

At the moment, I think it's hard to judge how the turns system is going to work in R2 anyway, because we just don't have enough information. We don't know how the seasons will/if be included. We don't know the scale of the campaign map or how movement and building points will work. We don't know exactly how recruitment or replenishment times will work. So there's still a lot of other factors that we don't know about that have a direct influence on the turn system.

I think the thing that concerns me most, and probably a lot of people, is that a 1 turn a year system will see us rotating Generals on a faster basis than we might like - we won't have such an opportunity to develop or grow attached to them. But we do know that armies themselves now have their own traits, so it may be CA want us to grow as attached to our forces as to the men commanding them - and I think that's a great idea overall. How that is balanced with the turns system and the Generals themselves remains to be seen. But I don't think we should judge the turn system they've chosen too harshly just yet, not when there's so many other deciding factors we don't know about. Plus, people have been able to mod in more turns in the previous games, so hopefully such a thing is still possible in R2 for those who want it.

[Ballacraine]

Yes, that is what I suggested, yesterday in this thread:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-year-per-turn

Good idea for a poll, but why are the results hidden?

Balla.

[total relism]

What do you think of this idea?
Would it be implementable?
Woudl settle everyone desires?

The idea is to have

1 Starting dates for the great campaigns divided in :

Early 270 bc
Middle 170 bc
Late 70 bc

Then a slider with turns per year :

1 , 2 or 4 ...

So you can have as much as 1200 turns with all seasons when starting from 270 bc or as few as just 100 turns if picking starting date late with 1 turn per year ...

4 turns a year 1 turn is stupid.

[Markas]

4 turns a year 1 turn is stupid.

How is 4 turns a year not stupid? By 200 BC you'd be 280 turns in. You'd need the endurance of a 10,000 metre runner to get a anywhere near 100 BC. That or riddled with OCD, which I am thankful I am not.

[Wothan]

If its easily modded like in Empire I dont think its necessary
HOWEVER if they make it trick to change the TPY they better put a goddamn slider on it

[killua]

About scaling the campaign time; there seems to be some doubt about how to use up all the turns so that the player doesn't finish the campaign in 300 turns anyway. In my opinion, we should think about why Rome didn't conquer the whole Mediterranean in 50 years (for example) and what makes it possible in-game. Armies were very expensive to recruit and maintain and actually were humans. By that I mean recruitment cost should be increased (though not necessarily maintenance costs) and that soldiers should be drawn form the provinces manpower count. Many factions didn't have an unlimited manpower at the time (Actually, nobody had) and soldiers were often drawn from certain classes. Recruitment of equites for example or noble warriors(for barbarians) would take people people from the higher classes while legionaries would take from the middle class (not a historical expert). That way, the player won't be able to recruit stacks and stacks of troops just cause he's got enough money for it.

I don't feel that movement speed should be reduced, when playing with a greater number of turns (personally I'm for real-time). Marching through Italy to invade Rome wasn't that far away for the barbarian invaders, only they knew it was well defended and that they'd get intercepted from the very moment they entered Roman territory. As someone showed, (dunno if this thread or not) an army could pretty much march from Spain to Russia in a year and when one turn=one year, well you see what realistic movement speeds would do...

Furthermore, recruitment speeds are just another thing broken by the turn-based system. Why would it take 2 years in MTW2 to arm some peasants; well stuff takes a minimum of two years so even sieging a puny rebel fort can take 6 years which is to say the least, unreal(istic).

Gonna come back when I've found some other ideas.

[Sean951]

My guess is they are going to give realistic movement speeds, but the armies are also going to have the ability to intercept, ambush, and generally harass the bajeezus out of armies the try and move from say Italy to Northern Gaul. So just because they can march that far in no way means they will arrive in anything resembling an army.

[Kanov]

Real time campaign movement would solve so many issues. Turn based movement is a thing of the past, get on with the times CA!

[Ballacraine]

Real time campaign movement would solve so many issues. Turn based movement is a thing of the past, get on with the times CA!

I totally & utterly disagree.

'Real time' is not the way TW plays. It has always been turn based.

I really cannot get on with that type of mechanic & that is why I find I cannot get on with the likes of Crusader Kings.

Balla

[Semper_Fidelis]

I agree, mainly because 1 tpy doesn't cut it for me.

[CptAustus]

This would only be feasible if the slider scaled absolutely everything: construction time, travel time, aging, research time, recruitment time, retraining time. There's a point you'll just skip turns to get stuff done, and that would be just stupid.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Well one thing is clear from the Poll ....


NOBODY WANTS 1 TURN / YEAR

[Tzar]

Love the idea

[Radzeer]

There is enough difference to keep these separate, otherwise please stay on topic.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Thankyou Radzeer !
On topic

A slider woudl be even very simple , just use a multiplier in any of the stats that woudl need a change .. .

like for example let's say basic unit movement is 10 in 1 year / turn , then in a 4 turns a year could be 4 ...

but honestly I think that a movement of one year for a unit would probably bring the unit from Spain to Parthia in one turn to be realistical or even more , so what shoudl be tuned really is not the movement , I would so leave them untouched ...

a 4 season system is a step foward realism , so the actual lenghts of the movements woul dmake more sense for a 4 season rather than a single year turn ...

[SonOfCrusader76]

What do you think of this idea?
Would it be implementable?
Woudl settle everyone desires?

The idea is to have

1 Starting dates for the great campaigns divided in :

Early 270 bc
Middle 170 bc
Late 70 bc

Then a slider with turns per year :

1 , 2 or 4 ...

So you can have as much as 1200 turns with all seasons when starting from 270 bc or as few as just 100 turns if picking starting date late with 1 turn per year ...

Well, you know me - I like sliders, as shown by my sig. My vote is a resounding yes; if you can have sliders for troop speed etc, why not for turns per year? I'm very unhappy with one turn per year - bang goes any idea of seasons. If the modders can do it, why can't CA? Only CA would be able to balance it better so build speeds etc aren't out of kilter.

Why are the vote results hidden on this one?