Correlation between faith and anti-social behaviour

[removeduser_487563287433]

I couldn't decide whether I should post this in the mudpit or ethos, but then I realised it was anal to even care.

http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews...=219&article=7

In summary; comparing 18 prosperous democracies shows a correlation between faith and anti-social behaviour.

In Japan 80% of the population accept evolution as fact and fewer than 10% are certain that God exists. Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world and the lowest level of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.

In Norway, the Netherlands, Germany and the United Kingdom at least 60% accept evolution and fewer than one in three believe in God. There is little teenage pregnancy (the UK is twice as bad as the other European states, however) and homicide rates are 1-2 per 100,000 people.

In the USA over half the population believes in God, and only 40% of people believe in some form of evolution (many believe that even this has help from God). The US has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates ten times that of Japan and five times that of Europe.

Now, although there are obviously more reasons for this than faith, I do not believe that these figures are coincidences.

[Hansa]

Let the flamin begin, anyhow, the number of Norwegians, Dutch, Brits and Germans believing in evolution seems higher than 60 percent to me. Can not believe that number isnt in the 80 or 90 percents.

[internationalist]

Correlation does not imply causation

[Hansa]

Correlation does not imply causation

It doesn't, and he didn't say it did.

[gigagaia]

Correlation does not imply causation

Actually, it does imply causation. In fact It very strongly implies/suggests causation. The fallacy is actually that correlation does not prove causation and thus cannot be used as a premise to prove the relationship. Thus looking at correlated instances is perfectly fair and encouraged, but you should be wary that the correlation is perhaps spurrious.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Actually, it does imply causation. In fact It very strongly implies/suggests causation. The fallacy is actually that correlation does not prove causation and thus cannot be used as a premise to prove the relationship. Thus looking at correlated instances is perfectly fair and encouraged, but you should be wary that the correlation is perhaps spurrious.

We have not seen the sex education of USA, Europe and Japan. We have not seen the unemployement of these countries either, nor the availability of drugs or weapons. There are so many correlations between different things to show different percentages.

As has been said, correlation does not prove causation.

[ENSAIS]

How bout if you correllate faith to worker productivity instead?

Might find the US does pretty well there. Or you can correllate GDP to faith (again US doing well). Or military might (geesh US doing pretty well again).

Better yet, how about if you actually have something scientific about WHO in the society is doing all this "anti-social behaviour" such as high teen pregnancy rates and homicides. Probably isn't highly populated by church-going believers.... as you appear to incinuate is the cause of this behavior.

Feel free to clarify if I "don't get" the general drift of your post.

ENSAIS

[ENSAIS]

How bout if you correllate faith to worker productivity instead?

Might find the US does pretty well there. Or you can correllate GDP to faith (again US doing well). Or military might (geesh US doing pretty well again).

Better yet, how about if you actually have something scientific about WHO in the society is doing all this "anti-social behaviour" such as high teen pregnancy rates and homicides. Probably isn't highly populated by church-going believers.... as you appear to incinuate is the cause of this behavior.

Feel free to clarify if I "don't get" the general drift of your post.

ENSAIS

WHat part of the questions did you not get when I first asked it back on page 1?

Question 1: On the subject of faith and behavior, "How about if you correllate faith to worker productivity (GDP, Military might, other positive aspects of the US) ?" See any correllations that interest you?


Question 2: Address scientifically WHO in US society is doing all this "anti-social behaviour" such as high teen pregnancy rates and homicides... are people of faith killing others at a high rate? Are people of faith having high teen pregnancy rates?

Do you even care about the questions or are you slinging mud because you "like the gib" of your article?
________________________________
THis would be a double post but I edited instead:

The original article that so stimulated Ferrets thinking is itself absolutely rediculous because it says of US Christians that:
"Convinced that only the Bible offers "truth", they lose their intellectual curiosity and their ability to reason. Their priority becomes not the world they live in but themselves."
and so
"The result is soaring rates of unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections."
concluding
"religion has brought in its wake little more than violence, prejudice and sexual disease. True morality is found elsewhere".


IF this were possibly true, US Christians should lead the nation and the world in rates of unwanted pregnancy, sexually transmitted infections, and homicides.

Good luck with that demographics study. I'm amazed you think that such a conclusion is even worth considering. Thought that Bible verse goes a long way to explain it...

[ENSAIS]

In the USA over half the population believes in God, and only 40% of people believe in some form of evolution (many believe that even this has help from God). The US has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates ten times that of Japan and five times that of Europe.

Now, although there are obviously more reasons for this than faith, I do not believe that these figures are coincidences.

The heck he didn't...

[bdh]

[QUOTE=Ferrets54]

In Japan 80% of the population accept evolution as fact and fewer than 10% are certain that God exists. Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world and the lowest level of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.

Japan also has high literacry rates and low poverty that grew out of an oppressive, autocratic social order.

In Norway, the Netherlands, Germany and the United Kingdom at least 60% accept evolution and fewer than one in three believe in God. There is little teenage pregnancy (the UK is twice as bad as the other European states, however) and homicide rates are 1-2 per 100,000 people.

For homicide rates, these countries don't have guns. As for pregnancy, there could be something to it but it probably has more to do with poverty.

In the USA over half the population believes in God, and only 40% of people believe in some form of evolution (many believe that even this has help from God). The US has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates ten times that of Japan and five times that of Europe.

Probably the simplest and most rational explanation for the discrepancies between Europe and the US is that the United States has a history of both immigration and racial/cultural oppression.

Now, although there are obviously more reasons for this than faith, I do not believe that these figures are coincidences.

If Europe had large minority populations that were oppressed by largely white populations you would probably experience the same issues. The faults of the US have more to do with historical oppression than they do with religion.

With the correlation you have above, most anything could attribute to the discrepancy between the US and Europe.
I'm going to say it has something to do with Americans being fat. I think that correlates strongly with the above data.

[internationalist]

I just don't buy statistics like theses. There is always a z-factor influencing the correlation. For example, another fun statistic is that there is a positive correlation between life expectancy and # of TV owned by a population.
However, the study is interesting, nonetheless.

[Hansa]

I think these statistics has far more to do with the different welfare state models, than religious beliefs. Maybe apart for the teenage pregnancy bit, US teachers not being allowed to teach the proper use of condoms in schools, and the pure emphazis on abstention in sex teaching is possibly and probably based on religion.

[removeduser_487563287433]

I feel that several people in this thread need to read my last sentence before they overreact.

[Oldgamer]

I couldn't decide whether I should post this in the mudpit or ethos, but then I realised it was anal to even care.

http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews...=219&article=7

In summary; comparing 18 prosperous democracies shows a correlation between faith and anti-social behaviour.

In Japan 80% of the population accept evolution as fact and fewer than 10% are certain that God exists. Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world and the lowest level of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.

In Norway, the Netherlands, Germany and the United Kingdom at least 60% accept evolution and fewer than one in three believe in God. There is little teenage pregnancy (the UK is twice as bad as the other European states, however) and homicide rates are 1-2 per 100,000 people.

In the USA over half the population believes in God, and only 40% of people believe in some form of evolution (many believe that even this has help from God). The US has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates ten times that of Japan and five times that of Europe.

Now, although there are obviously more reasons for this than faith, I do not believe that these figures are coincidences.

Are you trying to say that people who believe in God get pregnant more than those who don't, and are more likely to kill other people? Perhaps, the study didn't take into consideration the factor called "liberty" ...

[Amroth]

Perhaps, the study didn't take into consideration the factor called "liberty" ...

I would have said something, but we here in Norway don't have enought liberty...

[Hansa]

I would have said something, but we here in Norway don't have enought liberty...

He he, you have already said to much, for this you will be taken away and shot by our secret police the: TopphemmmeligeSuperparanoideInternetopinonssøkendeAntidemokratiskeStatligeTerrorPolitiorgan (TSIASTP).

Anyway, look at Ferrets last scentence, he does NOT state that there IS a correlation between anti-social behaviour and religion, he states that he BELIEVES, that there is such a correlation, there is a big difference here.

[PacSubCom]

He he, you have already said to much, for this you will be taken away and shot by our secret police the: TopphemmmeligeSuperparanoideInternetopinonssøkendeAntidemokratiskeStatligeTerrorPolitiorgan (TSIASTP).

Cool. What does "Topphemmelige" mean? Top Secret?

[Amroth]

Cool. What does "Topphemmelige" mean? Top Secret?

Yep. TopphemmmeligeSuperparanoideInternetopinonssøkende AntidemokratiskeStatligeTerrorPolitiorgan (TSIASTP) would translate to Top-secret-super-paranoid-internet-opinion-seeking Anti-democratic-government-terror-police-organization, or TSSPIOSADGTPO.

[Hansa]

Cool. What does "Topphemmelige" mean? Top Secret?

yupp, translated in to English the term states something like:

TopsecretSuperparanoidInternetopinionseekingAntidemocraticStateTerrorPoliceAgency. Made it up as I wrote it, so it wasn't to bright.

[MadKow]

Are you trying to say that people who believe in God get pregnant more than those who don't, and are more likely to kill other people? Perhaps, the study didn't take into consideration the factor called "liberty" ...

Was not the choice between liberty and death? Or do we have to rephrase that to "Give me liberty AND give me death"?