Build a PC for Rome 2 / Hardware Recommendations and Advice Thread

[Bolkonsky]

Fact of the matter is that we don't know what will run and will not run Shogun 2, forget about at medium settings. If they finally add decent multi-core support then yeah we'll see worse rigs be able to run it, but if they don't well you'll need a more powerful CPU to even touch 45 fps, regardless of graphics settings. In between now and the release, Nvidia and AMD will be releasing next-gen cards, and Intel will be pulling out Haswell. It's not gonna be groundbreaking but it's at least 10% faster, though they claim closer to 20% increase. Also don't discount AMD. They're launcing new APUs and really pushing GCN on everyone. We know CA wants to land on consoles at some point, if they're rewriting the graphics engine they could be doing it with next gen hardware in mind. (Next gen hardware being GCN APU's.) At this point, it's just impossible to tell what will and will not run Rome 2. You might be better served spending money on a low frequency multi core CPU, or a high frequency dual core. We just don't know yet.

Honestly though, threads like this are best posted in the Basement. We've already written up a million guides on how PC's work, what each part does, how to assemble them, etc. Making them new from scratch again is kinda redundant. You'd be better off working with some of the people who already do this kind of thing.

[Sharpe]

I'm going to buy my PC at the 11th hour, literally days before Rome 2 releases. Need maximum time for those sweet, sweet price drops.

[Biggus Splenus]

Ok, so I have an:
800-1000 pound PC build ($1160-$1450 AUD)
5000 ringgit PC build ($1560 AUD)
1500-1950 AUD PC build

Some more advice (Thomas you may not like hearing this if your an AMD boy )
- Nvidia is superior to AMD for TW games, because nvidia cards can handle more demanding situations for intense number crunching, such as the thousands of soldiers on TW battlefields. AMD is more superior in raw graphics though, games such as Crysis and Farcy. The reason why nvidia can crunch numbers faster is because of their 'CUDA' cores, which separately compute some of the processes that the CPU would otherwise be handling, thus relieving the CPU of some pressure and allowing it to work more efficiently. Some games don't need this though, which is when AMD takes the cake. AMDs high end cards for between $320 and $420 AUD have 3 gigs of GDDR5 memory, compared to nvidia's 2 gigs. This memory will not make much difference at all if your just going to be playing on a single 1920x1080 screen, but it makes a huge difference when you play on multi-monitor systems.

- I personally wouldn't use multi-monitors for gaming unless you were to invest in 3 screens, which gives a great surround affect. Having just 2 screens will block out the very centre of the screen because the the 2 monitor's bezzles, so that would be horrible.

- Finally, if you want 3D REALLY BAD then get Nvidia because their 3D vision is much better than AMDs HD3D. BUT, if you want multi-monitor (3 or 5 I suggest, not 2 or 4 for gaming), then get AMD because their eyefinity is better than Nvidia's surround.

EDIT: @ Bolkonsky - AMD processors should be considered when on a budget lower than ~ $1200 AUD in my opinion, especially for gaming. Nvidia and AMD will not be releasing their new graphics cards for a while, either the last quarter of this year, or the first quarter of 2014. And yes, Haswell is more aimed at mobile platforms than desktops. AMD's APUs should be a great consideration when someone is on a very tight budget, in any other case if someone wanted an AMD processor, I would suggest the FX CPU series. And again, what I am doing here is trying to grab the attention of the majority, not the people that wonder over to the basement forum

[Bolkonsky]

EDIT: @ Bolkonsky - AMD processors should be considered when on a budget lower than ~ $1200 AUD in my opinion, especially for gaming. Nvidia and AMD will not be releasing their new graphics cards for a while, either the last quarter of this year, or the first quarter of 2014. And yes, Haswell is more aimed at mobile platforms than desktops. AMD's APUs should be a great consideration when someone is on a very tight budget, in any other case if someone wanted an AMD processor, I would suggest the FX CPU series. And again, what I am doing here is trying to grab the attention of the majority, not the people that wonder over to the basement forum

Well there's an issue with AMD, and potentially it makes sense. CA wants to make a move to consoles at some point and if they're re-writing code, it makes sense to optimize it for GCN and AMD's pipeline while they're at it. FX 8350 is as good as if not better than the 3570k in some games, granted Total War is not one of them but we don't know about Rome 2 yet. From a developer standpoint, it makes sense to develop for AMD going forward. And as far as I know, we can expect next-gen GPU's in holiday season this year, around the same time as Rome 2 is coming out. Plus they've worked with AMD in the past and including Shogun 2. This is why I say hold off until the last minute, because there is no news of what kind of optimization to expect in terms of CPU. Graphically any current gen card will be able to run it if I had to guess, it's simple enough geometry. It's the CPU and VRAM that traditionally makes or breaks the game. And there's no news on that yet. (Not a good sign. )

And I'm not recommending an APU, thought I do want to do a Micro-ATX APU build at some point, but the issue is that the APU's are what all games for the next 5+ years will be running on. The tables have been turned on Nvidia and Intel. GCN will take over as the dominant architecture and that's definitely something to consider with upcoming releases. The consoles make it a lock, hands down. The 7xx cards use GCN, so they could end up running Rome 2 better, and the FX (or whatever replaces them, it looks like they might be sticking with FM2) series might be better optimized for Rome 2 as well, all because CA wants to break into the console market.

If that's not the case though, Intel brute forces much better than AMD thanks to their 1:1 integer/floating point core ratio. So again, it's really just a waiting game.

Why would someone need more than one screen?

Few different reasons. I'm not a fan of big screens, so I have a pair of 22" ones. Most IDE's require the use of a full screen, so having a web browser or Autodesk open in the second one is much handier than constantly minimizing stuff. Or just general chat programs, Netflix, etc. If you spend a lot of time working at a computer, it's handy. If you want to do multi-monitor gaming though, you need 3 screens or the crosshair in every fps is in the middle of the two screens, separated by the bezel.

[Sharpe]

Why would someone need more than one screen?

[Biggus Splenus]

No one needs more than one screen, but some people just love having it. It's obviously for people that don't have the word 'budget' in their dictionary

I personally don't care for multi-monitors or 3D, so I don't take those aspects in consideration when choosing a graphics card, and I'm sure there are a lot of others out there that think the same.

[Biggus Splenus]

CA have been talking about consoles for a while, but I think the decision is still indefinite. I wont be expecting to find a CA title on the console any time soon, especially not a TW. It will be like playing Age of Empire on the console, which i did and it was terrible.

AMDs more recent CPUs are definitely geared to run at future games because of their high core count. Right now though, you will be better off going with an Intel if your budget allows it (I think if you can't afford the 3570k, then just go AMD). I haven't yet said to anyone 'get Intel' or 'avoid AMD', I have just stated some strengths, weaknesses and unnecessaries of a few of them. FX 8350 does out perform the i5 3570k sometimes, but it works the other way around too. Everything has it's strengths and weaknesses, and yes it is too early to decide whether Rome 2 will support 4 cores, 6, or hell even 8 cores. But considering what Shogun 2 was like (2 core support), I wouldn't expect Rome 2 to support any more than 4, and even at that number Intel is still the prominent choice because Intel excels at excessive data-crunching over AMD's CPUs, which is what Total War games need.

Total War doesn't need a huge amount of CPU and GPU power compared to other games either, such as the infamous Crysis graphics engine. But in TW, a strong CPU is definitely more important than a strong GPU.

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

I knew about AMD cards pushing quality and eyefinity over Nvidia, but i didn't know about CUDA cores, so thanks. I was set on a single 7970, but by then I may be able to accept a GTX 680
My plan would be to have one very decent GPU, and then add a second one in a year or so when price comes down so as to stay competitive with next gen coming out early next year.

BUT AMD ARE WAY COOLER!! On ebay at the moment when you search 7990 you get the card come up at ~$1700, and then the next up is a full gaming rig INCLUDING THE CARD at ~$1820. Something either seems very wrong about that OR shut up and take my money.

[Biggus Splenus]

I knew about AMD cards pushing quality and eyefinity over Nvidia, but i didn't know about CUDA cores, so thanks. I was set on a single 7970, but by then I may be able to accept a GTX 680
My plan would be to have one very decent GPU, and then add a second one in a year or so when price comes down so as to stay competitive with next gen coming out early next year.

BUT AMD ARE WAY COOLER!! On ebay at the moment when you search 7990 you get the card come up at ~$1700, and then the next up is a full gaming rig INCLUDING THE CARD at ~$1820. Something either seems very wrong about that OR shut up and take my money.

Do not get the 680, it's geared towards animation and video rendering more than gaming. Just a single 670 is perfect for your budget I think, and making sure you have the option to add another 670 in the future is always a smart move.

Never buy new parts off of eBay. It's always worth the warranty.

^ This.

As for the 690 and 7990, they are dual GPU cards, ie. the 690 has two 670 GPUs inside of the card. I honestly wouldn't bother with a card that holds that much power and cost $1000 alone, I mean, the VGA setup should be the most expensive part in your gaming rig, but that much power can not be fully utilised in all games today on an average monitor setup.

Rewriting an engine costs millions of dollars, GCN hit the market already, and it will be used in all major titles for the next 5 years. It would make no sense to not optimize it for AMD while they're under the hood, so to speak. Especially when the game is already supposed to be optimized for AMD.

It is obvious that AMD is moving towards the general desktop and more towards general gaming, and I really do hope that AMD gets all the support they can for this move. If Rome 2 is geared for future AMD processors then I will be happy, but at this specific time Intel has a superior CPU performance.

Amazon or Newegg for me! If you have Amazon Prime you can get whatever you ordered the next day with barely any extra shipping cost. Not trying to advertise I'm just saying..

Not everyone is American or from the UK though....

Thomas, go to pccasegear.com for Australian parts. There is also cplonline.com.au which isn't as good, but they are both generally cheaper than ebay. I bought my PSU (power supply unit) from America and bought a separate Australian ATX power cord from the local shop because this particular PSU I wanted was $70 cheaper in America, and the power cord cost me $10, shipping was $30, so I still got $30 off. It was the Corsair AX760i, very high quality but usually outside of peoples budget. I also bought my Corsair H100i water cooler from America because it was $35 cheaper there and only $10 shipping.

So yeah, have a little look at Amazon.com before buying in Australia. There is one rule though; you CANNOT buy CPUs, motherboards or graphics cards from oversea retailers, your just not allowed to, they must be bought from a local retailer. I'd recommend buying cases locally too, because their oversea shipping price will be monstrous.

[Bolkonsky]

Rewriting an engine costs millions of dollars, GCN hit the market already, and it will be used in all major titles for the next 5 years. It would make no sense to not optimize it for AMD while they're under the hood, so to speak. Especially when the game is already supposed to be optimized for AMD.

I really appreciate the effort behind doing something like this, but I just don't think it's prudent to start now when we could easily be thrown a curveball that could seriously upset the way the game plays.

I knew about AMD cards pushing quality and eyefinity over Nvidia, but i didn't know about CUDA cores, so thanks. I was set on a single 7970, but by then I may be able to accept a GTX 680
My plan would be to have one very decent GPU, and then add a second one in a year or so when price comes down so as to stay competitive with next gen coming out early next year.

BUT AMD ARE WAY COOLER!! On ebay at the moment when you search 7990 you get the card come up at ~$1700, and then the next up is a full gaming rig INCLUDING THE CARD at ~$1820. Something either seems very wrong about that OR shut up and take my money.

Never buy new parts off of eBay. It's always worth the warranty. That said the 7990 is about $900 brand new from Newegg right now. And the GTX Titan for $1000 is definitely the better card. Nvidia typically wins the ultra high end battle.

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

Never buy new parts off of eBay. It's always worth the warranty.

If not Ebay, then where's good? I mean I know that sounds really green of me, but if warranties can be got off the right Ebay shops, why go elsewhere?

[Semper_Fidelis]

I'm upgrading to a z77 SLI capable ASUS motherboard with an i5 3570 and a GTX 670 FTW, do you think this will do the trick or is another 670 needed to max Rome II out? I'm trying to get as many opinions as I can before I shell out the caps.

[Bolkonsky]

Should handle it fine, FTW can generally overclock to 680 speeds which I'd imagine is good for some years. Save your money on the second one.

[The Great Consul]

Amazon or Newegg for me! If you have Amazon Prime you can get whatever you ordered the next day with barely any extra shipping cost. Not trying to advertise I'm just saying..

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

right, well OK, this has been enlightening. If I were to buy one today, it'd look something like this:
i5 3570k
Z77 mobo
GTX 670 FTW
~12GB RAM
700W PSU
1TB HDD (could always just use one of the ones I have now)
128/256GB SSD as primary
perhaps 60GB SSD as secondary
DVD RW (got one here that works fine)
Gaming Case
Gaming Mouse n Keyboard.
A mousepad that isn't a freebie marketing piece of crap.

Thoughts?

[DeadlyPhoenix]

right, well OK, this has been enlightening. If I were to buy one today, it'd look something like this:
i5 3570k
Z77 mobo
GTX 670 FTW
~12GB RAM
700W PSU
1TB HDD (could always just use one of the ones I have now)
128/256GB SSD as primary
perhaps 60GB SSD as secondary
DVD RW (got one here that works fine)
Gaming Case
Gaming Mouse n Keyboard.
A mousepad that isn't a freebie marketing piece of crap.

Thoughts?

I'm running a
i5-3570K + Coolermaster Hyper 212 Evo
Asrock Z77 Extreme 4 sLI ready
ZOTAC GTX 670 - option for a second one.
650W XXX Edition XFX
1TB Sata HDD
120 GB Corsair SSD (for OS en the heaviest games in terms of loading times)
8 GB DDR3 1600 ripjaws (to be upgraded in time)
Corsair Carbide 500R - pick a case big enough so it's able to actually fit your GFX's and leaves enough airflow room, having cables run behind the sidepanel is a plus
64bit win7

Dual monitored, Wacom Intuos tablet and the whole shebang (dual monitoring is just awesome to work with for college stuff etc)
I run crysis 3 at ultra settings
I run NTW DM at 40 unit cards, 2x unit size - as good as max settings
I run Shogun 2 at max settings (i don't play it often though, but benchmarked it)

Just so you have something to compare it to.

Rig is made in August. All you have to make sure for is that you have enough cooling/airflow

[AngryTitusPullo]

How do one get 12 GB RAM ?

[Biggus Splenus]

I think it's a great build, but I would make a few changes to some things. CPU is great, for the Z77 mobo I would go with ASRock Extreme 4 or 6. ASRock have the lowest return rates for their motherboards, which equals more reliability. They also have great overclocking support and stability. They offer the same as the ASUS and Gigabyte boards but with more reliability and at a cheaper price, it's a no brainer! There's only $30 difference between the extreme 4 and 6, but the best 'bang for the buck' between the 2 is the extreme 4, but I think you will easily afford the extreme 6.

For the graphics card I would personally go with the ASUS 670 DirectCU II, because it comes with a custom cooler and heatsink (unlike the reference one on the Evga FTW) at the same price, plus it comes with software that allows you to adjust it's specs to your liking. There is the other alternative of getting the Evga 670 FTW Signature, which also has its own custom cooler and heatsink but is fairly hard to find in Australia, but once you do find it expect to pay a hefty sum of cash. So overall, I would definitely suggest ASUS over Evga. If your picking between the Evga FTW and ASUS DirectCU II (cost the same), then your picking between power, and cooling & less noise respectively.

12GB of RAM is too much for gaming, and not to mention impractical on a 1155 chip set motherboard (which you have). RAM sticks (or DIMMs) only come in sets of 2, and you cannot get 6GB DIMMs. You could get 3 DIMMs of 4GB, but like I said, it's impractical. All modern games RIGHT NOW don't even use 8GB of RAM, only take advantage of about 6GB, so getting 12GB will be overkill. Get a set of either Corsair Vengence or G.Skill Sniper 2x4GB RAM because they are compatible with all Z77 motherboards (preferably the later because it has less obnoxious heatsink fins, so you wont have to worry about compatability with other parts, but choose whatever suits you). These 2 brands are the easiest and cheapest to find in Australia.

I would try go for a power supply higher than 700W if you want the option to add another 670 in the future. Just a little more like 750W. The best brands are Corsair, Seasonic (very expensive though), Antec, XFX and the newer Silverstone ones (like the Strider and Strider Plus series).

1TB HDD is fine, and I would go with a 256 SSD, in about half a year I would expect those to drop to the present price of a 128 SSD, it's evolving fast. As for the brand of SSD, go with Samsung. Right now their 840 Pro series are the most reliable and fastest SSDs on the market, but if you can't afford that just go with the regular 840 series. Samsung and Intel are equally reliable, but Intel cost a lot more just because they are Intel. A single 128GB SSD should be enough, just put your OS on there, your most beloved programs and the high-end games that are most demanding. It's easy to add another SSD if you feel like it.

Before discussing cases, you have left one one vital part; the CPU cooler. I highly advise not to use the stock cooler, it's noisy and does a terrible job, but I'll give you 4 options here: stick with the stock cooler (please don't ), get an after market heatsink, get a closed-loop (ie. pre-built) water cooling system, or make a custom loop water cooling system. These option go in order of cheapest to most expensive, and if this is your first PC build I won't be advising the last option. I personally wanted to go with the 3rd option (pre-built closed-loop) because it reduces the common incompatibility issues with big RAM sticks and big aftermarket heatsinks, it also looks much neater and gives you a few degrees more performance over the best heatsinks. If I've confused you, then I would suggest going with the pre-built water cooling system, because on your budget you will be able to afford it.

The case should be picked last, because it doesn't do anything to your performance and should be picked to be compatible with your interior, not the other way around.

The Alienware monitor you already have (while I'm 100% against Alienware) is actually really good, but you could have got something cheaper that was just as good, assuming you got it at retail price. But at least we don't have to take into consideration the cost of a new monitor.

At the moment I have made a wishlist with what I would recommend you having it as
http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?...ion=wish_lists
This will play S2 maxed out.

We still need to add an aftermarket CPU cooler (tell me if you want water cooling or heatsink), a case, and a desktop set (keyboard, mouse and pad). Firstly you need to decide what cooling you want, then I can help you pick a case that can fit everything you have (I will give you a wide option because cases are a matter of taste, especially in appearance). Then you can spend what ever money you want on the desktop set.

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

Thanks Splenyi for the effort. I'll keep all that in mind. It was just a ramble, so things will change, but it's good to know that's it's pretty much there. I forgot to mention the cooler, but would naturally have gone for the aftermarket heatsink, but wanted a step up. The closed loop water cooling sounds like a good idea, looking at the range.

+1

[Biggus Splenus]

If you want a pre-built water cooling setup, I would suggest getting a Corsair case, either the 500R, 550D, 650D or the C70. There's also the Bitfenix Ghost, but it doesn't have some of the great features that the Corsair cases do, hence the smaller price tag.

550D is silence oriented, so the H80i is probably the best cooling option there. In the other 3 I mentioned, I would suggest the H100i. The H90i and H110i shouldn't be too far off, so it might be worth waiting for them because they use 140mm fans and radiator instead of 120mm, which equals more air flow at lower noise.

PS. I'm a bit of a Corsair fanboy but I still know when someones product is better than Corsairs, like Swiftech's H220 which is apparently the highest quality pre-built water cooling right now. NZXT already have a dual 140mm radiator if you don't want to wait for Corsairs Hi series of this size.