View Poll Results: Would you guys like to see this?

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Thread: Build a PC for Rome 2 / Hardware Recommendations and Advice Thread

  1. #61
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    While many games don't profit from the hyperthreading of i7 CPUs and some even perform lower with hyperthreading enabled, there are some games which can profit from it and the future there will certainly be more since better multithreading/multi-core usage is the only way to increase the performance substantially (single core performance is going up relatively slow). Sure i5s have the better price/performance ratio (I have a i5-2500k myself) but i7 can be great for games too (if you have the money).
    I suppose it will be, but definitely not now. Maybe in a year and a half it will have a better price/performance ratio because games will actually take advantage of hyperthreading, might even take longer than that, but definitely not now. For a primarily gaming PC at this time, the extra $100 you spend on the i7 is practically $100 down the drain, unless your investing that $100 so your ready for future PC games that will take advantage of this then I suppose that could be an option, but by then Intel will have even better hyperthreaded CPUs for the same price. It's a decision worth considering I suppose.

    While the Extreme 4/6 are very good boards and have an excellent price/performance ratio, in the last 2 years, I had less problems with ASUS boards (didn't use any Gigabyte boards) and found their system software superior to ASRock. So it's a trade off.
    ASRock certainly haven't been a premium brand in the past, but NOW they are the most reliable. But I do agree with you that their software is not as good as ASUS, MSI or Gigabyte boards.

    No, TW games don't use CUDA. The pathfinding, AI, animation, ... related to the units are all calculated by the CPU (and essentially a single core) which is why the performance goes into the knees when too many units are trying to get across a bottleneck like a bridge for example. If I remember correctly, according to the benchmark comparisons I have seen, it seems that MSAA runs better on Nvidia cards and when it's enabled they usually win but without MSAA AMD is often faster.

    Except for the CUDA section where you mix up a lot of stuff completely, you are mostly right but I would just be a bit more careful with your statements.
    I suppose I was misinformed, not my fault but I definitely should have checked my facts.

    Regarding building a PC before Rome 2 is out, consider these facts....
    I suppose those are unavoidable software problems though, and S2 definitely went though a long period of constant patching which was a nightmare. Hopefully CA release a complete title this time.

    I remember when I was playing S2 multiplayer campaign with my brother right after release, the game would screw up constantly, thinking it was his turn when it was actually mine, and neither of us could do anything. CA should just take their time on Rome 2, and not get all excited and announce the release date so early, so that it gives them more leg way to improve the games bugs. Off topic, but necessary

    I made that mistake once - to get a decent rig for arma (a month before it's release) and it just didn't work - every other game worked on that rig like cheese - just not arma - no matter what i did/changed.
    I know my younger brother had troubles with ARMA 2, but he just needed to update and optimise his driver settings. Not the same game, but I'm just saying software is equally as essential as hardware. But I suppose you just got unlucky.

    And the definition of tutorial is to pass knowledge/information from one person, to another. It's not a strict step-by-step procedure like you are implying.

    EDIT: poll scores: 20 want written form, 13 want Youtube form, 8 don't care.
    Last edited by Biggus Splenus; March 12, 2013 at 08:23 AM.
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  2. #62
    Chris Death's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Quote Originally Posted by Splenyi View Post
    And the definition of tutorial is to pass knowledge/information from one person, to another. It's not a strict step-by-step procedure like you are implying.
    No, the most common definition of tutorial is; to provide a step by step instruction.

    Although there is one entry to be found through google where it says something close to your
    definition of a tutorial but for passing knowledge/information nowadays we are using e.g: a knowledge database and/or an info database.

    And no matter how we gonna call that thing now it is still of a high risk due to the fact that real people may spend real money provided
    by speculation based on prior experience with similar stuff.

    ~S~ CD
    Ever wanted to be able to attack the city of rome the second turn when playing a roman faction yourself in RTW? then click here

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  3. #63

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Thing is, for me, it's more practical to build my computer at the end of summer, when I have free time rather than at around October, where I will be busy with work. I know building a PC is not supposed to be particularly difficult but I've not done it before so wouldn't want to be forced to rush through it.


    Personally, the only high powered things I will ever use my PC for will be for gaming and perhaps various MATLAB/C++ code. In all honesty, I'm not sure what kind of code I will be running in the future as it's generally stuff written by research scientists but currently it takes quite long to run on my laptop, which is annoying. If i7 CPU, 16GB RAM will improve the performance noticeably, I may be tempted to shell out on it, if you guys reckon it's worth it. Also, it will have the side benefit of future-proofing my pc but I realise that the vast majority of the time these extra aspects will go unused.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    If you have large projects, then a multithreaded C++ compiler (e.g. MS-Visual Studio) is one of the applications which benefits most from the hyperthreading of i7 CPUs (pure scientific calculations without much IO usually don't benefit). But what's more important for that is a decent SSD, otherwise the CPU will always be waiting for the HD and the money for the i7 would be wasted.

  5. #65
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Will get back to everyone else soon, first thing; "thescotsviking" PMed me about building a PC for around £500, and this is what I sent him:

    CASE: Corsair Carbide Series 200R £51
    CPU: AMD Phantom II 965 £84
    Mobo: ASRock 970 Extreme3 £65
    RAM: Corsair 2x2GB (4GB) £25
    GPU: Nvidia 650 Ti £125
    PSU: Seasonic SI2II 520W £66
    HDD: Seagate Barracuda 1TB £61
    CPU Cooler: Cooler Master 212 Evo £28

    Total: £505

    It's a well balanced system, and I'm sure you will be able to play R2 on in. Some worth while upgrades would be (if you can spend the money)

    CPU: AMD FX-6300 £106
    GPU: AMD 7850 £152 or AMD 7870 £184 (7870 is much better than the 7850, definitely worth joining with the FX-6300)
    RAM: Crucial Ballistix 2x4GB (8GB) £36

    Perhaps only consider getting the upgraded GPU (graphics card) I listed here if you are going to get the upgraded CPU. The upgraded RAM would complement you system well to for only an extra few pounds, but will not be needed if you are not going for the upgraded parts here. If you want to go with all these upgraded parts, it's another £100, but it is DEFINITELY worth the investment. Maybe consider saving up a little more cash for this.
    Would you other enthusiast out there think this is a smart build for the budget?

    No, the most common definition of tutorial is; to provide a step by step instruction.
    Well I know what a tutorial is, but I don't see what you're trying to do here. Does it really matter if I call it a tutorial or guide?

    @ Numidia Merc - the 3570k will still perform very well while compiling code, but the i7 is a fare step further ahead. i7 is definitely a luxury piece; you don't need it for compiling or rendering, it just shaves off some time of the process.
    Last edited by Biggus Splenus; March 12, 2013 at 10:11 AM.
    | R5 3600, RTX 2060, MSI B450I, 32GB 3200MHz CL16 DDR4, AX760i, NH-U12S |

  6. #66

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    If Rome 2 is as poorly multi-core optimized as Shogun 2 AMD CPUs will be relatively slow:

    Note that even the i3-2130 outperforms the Phenom II X4 980.
    And the FX processor don't have any numbers because due the compatibility problems mentioned before those CPUs didn't work with S2 at the time of that review at all.
    But usually the single core performance of the FX processors is similar to a Phenom X6 1100T.



    http://www.hardware.fr/articles/846-...anno-1404.html



    Another CPU test:
    Last edited by A Barbarian; March 12, 2013 at 10:21 AM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Quote Originally Posted by A Barbarian View Post
    If you have large projects, then a multithreaded C++ compiler (e.g. MS-Visual Studio) is one of the applications which benefits most from the hyperthreading of i7 CPUs (pure scientific calculations without much IO usually don't benefit). But what's more important for that is a decent SSD, otherwise the CPU will always be waiting for the HD and the money for the i7 would be wasted.
    Yeah, will definitely get an SSD, they look amazing! If the price drops enough, even considering 500GB SSD and not bothering with a hard drive at all. In all honesty, I don't download all that much on to my computer and have never even come close to using 500GB before. What do people download that takes up that much space?

    If you have large projects, then a multithreaded C++ compiler (e.g. MS-Visual Studio) is one of the applications which benefits most from the hyperthreading of i7 CPUs (pure scientific calculations without much IO usually don't benefit). But what's more important for that is a decent SSD, otherwise the CPU will always be waiting for the HD and the money for the i7 would be wasted.
    Thanks. My guess is that I won't be using a multithreaded C++ compiler in the next few years but that is only a guess. I'll keep this in mind when deciding what to get.

  8. #68
    Chris Death's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Quote Originally Posted by Splenyi View Post
    Well I know what a tutorial is, but I don't see what you're trying to do here. Does it really matter if I call it a tutorial or guide?
    May i quote my own post (the one at which you asked this question) here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Death View Post
    And no matter how we gonna call that thing now it is still of a high risk due to the fact that real people may spend real money provided
    by speculation based on prior experience with similar stuff.
    ~S~CD
    Ever wanted to be able to attack the city of rome the second turn when playing a roman faction yourself in RTW? then click here

    |Sith|IV|Chris_Death

    My youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/Chrisdeath69?gvnc=1

    ~S~ CD

  9. #69

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    If I had to get storage now though I was thinking 250GB Samsung SSD and a 1TB harddrive from somewhere. Should make £175 in total, which is a lot less than £260 for a 500GB SSD.

    Yeah, even with possible future price drops, would that still be the best option? Or are SSD only useful for program files such that a 128GB one could do the trick? That would make £125 in total. So many choices!

  10. #70
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    SSDs are just as useful as HDD, but better in every way. They are definitely the future of storage and in a decade, we won't see any HDDs.

    @ barbarian - the i3 is only superior to the FX-6300 when using a single thread. Multi threaded programs run better on the 6300 though, which Rome 2 and Shogun 2 do (2 cores count as multi core I suppose)
    Last edited by Biggus Splenus; March 12, 2013 at 10:32 AM.
    | R5 3600, RTX 2060, MSI B450I, 32GB 3200MHz CL16 DDR4, AX760i, NH-U12S |

  11. #71

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    No, S2 is effectively (there is some stuff going on in secundary threads and also the OS needs some CPU time but the limiting stuff is really bottlenecked on a single core) single core, trust me. Also, since the i3 also has 2 cores, a program needs to use at least 3 cores so that the FX can make up for the lower single core performance.

    Proper multicore support is really the feature I want most from Rome 2. Most other stuff like A.I., more factions, ... can (hopefully) be modded in but multicore support can only be implemented by CA. But you have to design the whole engine from ground up with multithreading in mind, otherwise the possible gains are quite small.
    Last edited by A Barbarian; March 12, 2013 at 10:39 AM.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Quote Originally Posted by A Barbarian View Post
    No, S2 is effectively (there is some stuff going on in secundary threads and also the OS needs some CPU time but the limiting stuff is really bottlenecked on a single core) single core, trust me. Also, since the i3 also has 2 cores, a program needs to use at least 3 cores so that the FX can make up for the lower single core performance.

    Proper multicore support is really the feature I want most from Rome 2. Most other stuff like A.I., more factions, ... can (hopefully) be modded in but multicore support can only be implemented by CA. But you have to design the whole engine from ground up with multithreading in mind, otherwise the possible gains are quite small.
    Hey dont mention the fact that it is a huge waste of money and our cpu power by neglecting to get all four cores or more used up to near 70% + usage like BF3 can.I can only imagine what could be done with troops numbers if my 3570k at 4.7 was getitng maxed out :O


    And for the tutorial there should only need to be a few lines about the actual parts.Most of it should be aimed at the actual building which if done with certain parts like corsair coolers makes things a hell of a lot less daunting.If you can understand the basics on youtube which you will after 1hr or less tutorial you CAN do it yourself!


    First on the list should be the 3570k.Nothing else comes close forget AMD! Cooled by a corsair H60-H80i depending on your budget is a great option.
    Then you need a Z77 motherboard of your choice depending on if you want PCI.
    Next should be fast ram.Faster ram opens up the bandwidth and helps the cpu out doing extreme physics simulation like totalwar mass melee.8GB of samsung green or kingston 2133mhz ram can be had for a good price.I got 16GB for £65!
    A quality corsair PSU is next and you should ideally be looking at 650-850 watt models.More psu power will help future proof your purchase.
    Then just buy the case and the best graphics card you can afford.
    A small SSD is also highly desireable.Crucial M4 or Samsung 830 models are perfect.My choice would be the 128GB model.


    Ta-da
    3570K 4700mhz cooled with Corsair H80 // Asus Z77 // MSI GTX 580
    16GB 2400mhz DDR3 // Crucial M4 256GB Raid 0 // Dell 2007WFP

  13. #73
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Not everyone can afford what you have listed though. 16GB is an absolute overkill though, most games don't even use 8GB. You don't need a power supply between 650 and 850W, 500W is enough for any single graphics card. The FX 8350 should not be forgotten, it runs just as good as the Intel i5 3570k on games that are threaded properly, like Crysis 3 and Farcry 3, but Shogun 2 isn't one of these games. More about you RAM choice, you definitely don't need to spend more money on fast ram. 1600Mhz is ideal for gaming, higher speeds make the smallest difference. Besides, you can just overclock your ram to any speed you want.

    And the case should always be decided on last. You don't want to cheap out on a GPU just because you bought a great looking case.

    Choosing your PC parts isn't that straight forward.
    | R5 3600, RTX 2060, MSI B450I, 32GB 3200MHz CL16 DDR4, AX760i, NH-U12S |

  14. #74

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    This thread is pretty useless at this point.
    what you could do is put budget brackets. like 700-900, 900-1100, 1100-1300, 1300-1500 and 1500+

    you then list different parts for each budget bracket that the forum users can follow and buy, that was one of the most complicated steps for me since I had no idea what was good and what was bad for Rome 2.
    and then with the parts listed you post some general instructions, warnings and tips on assembling these parts.

    THATS what you should be doing. this thread is pretty pointless now and can't even be called a tutorial at this point. it is just misleading.

    Edit:
    and to answer your question(Poll); both, it helps a lot if you show where each part goes individually making a long ass video of 30 minutes wont help making several 5 mint videos that have an introduction before them and 'show' an example after the explanation would be very useful.
    its obvious you want to help people and I believe as someone who needed the help of a friend to get my own PC build set up that doing what I suggested above would be infinitely more useful and it would warrant a sticky in the Basement Sub-Thread.
    Last edited by Toho; March 12, 2013 at 10:16 PM.

  15. #75
    Biggus Splenus's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Well yeah, its not a tutorial yet obviously, but I was waiting to see what kind of tutorials people want before I made them.

    I was going to make recommended fixed-price builds, say one at $700, another at $900, $1100, $1300, $1500, $1700, $1900+. Then under each of these recommended builds, I would make a some suggestions on how to improve the build overall for about another $100 (so that the improved version would be half way between its original, and it's next step up, if that makes sense). Do you think this is a good idea?

    I won't be including monitors and/or mice and keyboards, but I will have a separate section for them on what I would recommend for different price ranges too.
    | R5 3600, RTX 2060, MSI B450I, 32GB 3200MHz CL16 DDR4, AX760i, NH-U12S |

  16. #76

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Quote Originally Posted by Splenyi View Post
    1600Mhz is ideal for gaming, higher speeds make the smallest difference.
    That's usually right, but again Shogun 2 is an exception here. Most games get maybe 1 or 2 percent (if any) speed bump from a 50% RAM speed difference but Shogun 2 gains almost 10% on average (and I would imagine that it gains more on the minimum values):


    Quote Originally Posted by Splenyi View Post
    Besides, you can just overclock your ram to any speed you want.
    Really? So you buy a noname 1333 Mhz RAM and overclock it to 2000 Mhz? Good luck. Also, which voltage and timings are you going to use? Overclocking RAM is actually more complicated than overclocking most CPUs or GPUs since there are more parameters (voltages, RAM timings). At least if you want more than a 10% overclock. The overclocking headroom is also influenced by the number of modules, 4 modules usually aren't as easily overclocked as 2 since the all modules have to be able to reach the same overclock and 4 modules put more stress on the chipset. Also don't forget that the voltage on the RAM has an influence on the CPU since the recent CPU generations, the memory controller is now embedded within the CPU.

    Here is an example of the relation of speed to voltage and timings (and this is for one set of 2 modules, with a different set of 2 modules or with 4 modules it would look different):
    Last edited by A Barbarian; March 13, 2013 at 05:39 AM.

  17. #77
    magpie's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    I would assume as CA are using the Warscape engine for Rome II then the specifications are not going to change from the previous TW titles using that engine?

    Seem,s one would be better off waiting to see what they come up with before spending a bundle on a new computer, Where Rome II may not be able to use all the super new technology?

    sponsered by the noble Prisca

  18. #78

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    I would assume as CA are using the Warscape engine for Rome II then the specifications are not going to change from the previous TW titles using that engine?

    Seem,s one would be better off waiting to see what they come up with before spending a bundle on a new computer, Where Rome II may not be able to use all the super new technology?
    exactly this. but if some of you are unsure on builds get reading up. i always link this as it's a good basic intro..

    i actually took apart my old pc first and figured out what was what, rest was history as they say. that was 5yrs or so back so was a bit harder in them days


    http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=237103

    some of the old cpu installations were such a pain in the ass...

    p.s and yes some parts are to be avoided so brand research is important as is the company you buy from and their "period of grace" where you have time to build and send back when necessary. that's why getting all your main build stuff around the same time and having a good couple of days to figure it is a good idea.

    even choosing the right fan can matter as you dont want that uber build being let down by noise etc etc.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    I would assume as CA are using the Warscape engine for Rome II then the specifications are not going to change from the previous TW titles using that engine?
    They said that they are going to make some bigger changes to the engine for Rome II but never talked about any details. So there is a certain chance that they actually improved the multi-core usage for example. But we will only find out when the game has been released since CA never gave out any exact information about such things only very coarse information or marketing talk like 'Shogun 2 supports multiple cores' which they can already claim because they have that web-component (based on the Google Chromium/Webkit) serving game related ads in the main screen, lol.

    Also, even the graphics engine from the Shogun 2 demo which was released right before the real game was quite different from the engine in the game. With the demo I was able to force MSAA which looked better than the latest DX11 MSAA implementation they have in FOTS because that one is bugged.
    Last edited by A Barbarian; March 13, 2013 at 08:42 AM.

  20. #80
    Shigawire's Avatar VOXIFEX MAXIMVS
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    Default Re: Building a PC 'in anticipation' for Rome 2 tutorial

    Well, I've built my own computers since the 1990s, but I think this would be a valuable contribution, so I don't see why not!
    I'm sure there are people who would appreciate it. I just built a new computer for a friend of mine this friday, he mostly uses it for graphical work though.
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