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Thread: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

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  1. #1

    Default Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    Why is it that you can only infiltrate settlements if they have 90+ or more chance of success? if its below this, in nearly impossible to infiltrate it! I just tried to infiltrate a settlement with 76% chance of success but after 30 attempts (save/load ect) I gave up. In my head, 76% means that 3 of every 4 attempts should end in success, not 0 of 30. And its not just now I've always hated this feature and NEVER been able to infiltrate ANY settlements with lover then 90% change of success (maybe 84 once). I do understand when you have 19% chance of success its kinda hard but not when its 76%. But maybe Im the only one having this problem?

  2. #2
    knight of meh's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    a little explanation on the game engine is in order here ... the game uses a random number generator that determines success or failure of auto-resolved battles and agents actions .. you get a good number you succeed , you get bad number you fail..

    the funny thing about this game is the random umber generator isn't exactly "random" if you reload a save and do they same action (in this case a spy mission) and you fail one you will nearly always fail regardless of the % chance of the spy... honestly the spy success % only counts the first time unless you do different actions after each reload .

    P.S i was waiting for you to start a thread like this

  3. #3

    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by knight of meh View Post
    P.S i was waiting for you to start a thread like this
    Haham my next is gonna be about how much I hate, or....dislike the new site Thanks for the info, the piece the swedish house mafia guy posted was useful :-). One down, many to go. Next will be the AI attacking bug..


    PS: I have NEVER infiltrated a settelment with lower then 84% (even that is a royal pain in the wewe)

  4. #4
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    Then mod init to what suits your taste.
    Open descr_campaign_db.xml in the data-folder, I suggest you use the freeware Notepad++ but guess normal Notepad can work too.
    Go to this section:
    Code:
          <spy_base_chance float="40.0"/>                  <!-- base spying chance -->
          <spy_level_modifier float="0.15"/>                <!-- modifies the amount the subterfuge rating of a spy affects chance of success -->
          <not_spy_level_modifier float="0.5"/>            <!-- modifies the chance of success if spying object not a spy -->
          <spy_public_modifier float="1.0"/>               <!-- inversely modifies the amount the public security aspects of the target affects chance of success -->
          <spy_counter_spy_modifier float="1.0"/>          <!-- inversely modifies the amount the combined subterfuge rating with the target affects chance of success -->
          <spy_distance_modifier float="1.0"/>             <!-- inversely modifies the amount the distance in movement points from the target affects chance of success -->
          <spy_secret_agent_target_modifier float="0.5"/>  <!-- modifies the chance of success if an assassin or spy is travelling with a target army -->
          <spy_sedentary_turns_modifier float="0.2"/>      <!-- modifies the amount of turns a target has been stationary affects chance of success -->
          <spy_alliance_modifier float="1.5"/>             <!-- modifies the chance of success if the target is allied with spy faction -->
          <spy_target_engaged_modifier float="2.0"/>       <!-- modifies the chance of success if target is in engagement, under siege or battle -->
          <spy_in_settlement_modifier float="5.0"/>        <!-- modifies the chance of success if spy in settlement they are spying on -->
          <spy_watchtower_modifier float="2.5"/>           <!-- modifies the chance of success if spying object is a watchtower -->
          <spy_in_own_region_modifier float="1.2"/>        <!-- modifies the chance of success if spy in in their own factions region -->
          <spy_chance_min int="10"/>                        <!-- min clamp for spy chance -->
          <spy_chance_max int="90"/>                       <!-- max clamp for spy chance -->
          <spy_rescale_chance bool="false"/>               <!-- flag to indicate if the final chance is non-linearly rescaled to improve spying chance of success -->
    As each line has a description it should be easier to know or figure out what to change to balance it as you want.
    EDIT: Shall be saved game compatible AFAIK, making it easier to test (though with knight's mentioned restriction in mind)
    Last edited by Ngugi; March 10, 2013 at 02:25 PM.

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  5. #5
    jinjo's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    i dont agree with umy spy (dwarves) has just infilitrated Dains hall with 63% chance.

  6. #6
    Mhaedros's Avatar Brave Heart Tegan
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    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    I've infiltrated many with less than 50% and it almost always works with 65-100 too
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  7. #7
    Mikail Mengsk's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    I found that sometimes low chances are better than good chances. Odd enough. I usually don't mind to try with 30% chance, but absolutely avoid 70-80%.
    It's only after you have lost everything, that you are free to do anything.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mikail Mengsk View Post
    I found that sometimes low chances are better than good chances. Odd enough. I usually don't mind to try with 30% chance, but absolutely avoid 70-80%.
    Yeah, seems like what knight of meh said...just random everything

  9. #9

    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    I never have this problem. :/

  10. #10
    knight of meh's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    what i really don't get is why the random number generator doesn't reset after a reload or whatever it's not like it's the hardest math in the world .

    then again as i am saying this i realize they probably saw reloading as cheating and didn't plan for hot seats... ignore me

  11. #11
    Withwnar's Avatar Script To The Waist
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    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by knight of meh View Post
    what i really don't get is why the random number generator doesn't reset after a reload
    It must mean that the 'dice roll' of the next action is saved along with everything else. i.e. The dice have already been rolled, after the previous action.

    This is the key point in case anyone missed it...

    unless you do different actions after each reload
    Load ... do something, like move any character one tile ... try your spy again.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    What I dont get is why the AI runs away when you army is bigger then 50% of the AI army and just freezes at their new place so ranged units can take them out without any resistance.

    AND WHAT I DONT GET IS WHY I STILL LOVE THIS GAME
    Last edited by SandraDevilGirl; March 11, 2013 at 09:55 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by SandraDevilGirl View Post
    What I dont get is why the AI runs away when you army is bigger then 50% of the AI army and just freezes at their new place so ranged units can take them out without any resistance.

    AND WHAT I DONT GET IS WHY I STILL LOVE THIS GAME
    I think this has too do with the number of missile units they field, they head for high ground it usually seems too me if they have a fair number of these units. This is not much an advantage for relatively short range orcs, getting Rhun in MOS off a damn hill top with their two extreme Range units is a royal pain. I think the AI played smarter and more aggressively with the skirmisher category for shorter range missile units in the mix. I may have to go and play SS again for awhile see if their is a relative difference. As far as I can tell this category is eliminated.

  14. #14
    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    Cuz its lotr? :p

  15. #15

    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch-Balrog View Post
    Cuz its lotr? :p
    Haha, must it it!

    Quote Originally Posted by muller227 View Post
    I think this has too do with the number of missile units they field, they head for high ground it usually seems too me if they have a fair number of these units. This is not much an advantage for relatively short range orcs, getting Rhun in MOS off a damn hill top with their two extreme Range units is a royal pain. I think the AI played smarter and more aggressively with the skirmisher category for shorter range missile units in the mix. I may have to go and play SS again for awhile see if their is a relative difference. As far as I can tell this category is eliminated.
    It dont matter if they have missiles units or not....they still run. I have seen this even if the army has only Orc Bands in their army. Its all about army size...

  16. #16

    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    I frequently find myself failing on 90% yet successfully infiltrating on 40%. The only logical answer I can come up with is wiggidywaggleflishyfloshywoopdedoodle.

  17. #17
    Vifarc's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Once of many things I hate with this game part 1: Spy

    What I've found by playing:
    The % is for one test of one unit or settlement. If you spy a unit which is next to others, you will have to make many % tests (even you don't spy the others), and if you fail one test the spy is dead.
    So, written 70% to spy a unit next to another is in fact less than 50% of success...
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