General Islam Discussion

[LegionnaireX]

Since there have been so many threads popping up all over the Ethos section related to Islam, I have created this thread and have merged all the recent ones here.

Please use this thread instead of creating anymore new ones.

Thank you.

-Honor&Glory

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Now hear me out, don't jump on me for making what willl be seen as a ghastly and politically incorrect statement.

It seems to me that Islam is an unstable religion. If you look back into history it appears as democracy, tolerance, and civil rights began to florish in the West in the centuries after the beginning of the renaissance, the Muslim middle east chose to leave itself in the dark ages.

There is no other living example of a religion which has so much control over the actions of its followers. It seems that with devout Islam as a country's government it is doomed to be host for extremism and war. The current situation in Iraq provides evidence for my claim considering that the once enthusiastic and peaceful people of Iraq have turned to civil war due to their intolerance and hate.

What causes this? I'm not going to turn butter up the issue claiming that it is only certain muslims who are "bad" or "unstable" because I don't believe that is true. There must be something ingrained in the minds of middle eastern muslims which makes the more prone to hateful behavior. They don't have an example of tolerance, equality, and peace in their lives to turn to and learn from and the one that is trying to help invain they are bred to hate (the United States).

You may take my views as harsh but they needed to be said. Something needs to be done or else the entire middle east will break out in war. Or maybe that's what needs to happen for them to see their own ridiculous path back to the stone age.

your thoughts

[removeduser_487563287433]

My thoughts would be that Islamic nations such as Qatar, UAE and Bahrain don't follow this whatsoever.

[LegionnaireX]

My thoughts would be that Islamic nations such as Qatar, UAE and Bahrain don't follow this whatsoever.

So you don't think there is problem "whatsoever?" :hmmm:

Nations who are almost soley muslim who's government's follow or accept Islamic law. Nations like Lebonan, Taliban Afghanistan, present day Iraq, Palestine. Those are the types of nations a speak of.

[lowbaccaus]

Can you provide any more historical evidence for your assertion? Also, can you contrast your assertion about Islam with another religion; say maybe christianity, buddhism, judism?

As your argument stands it seems far too simplistic

[removeduser_487563287433]

So you don't think there is problem "whatsoever?" :hmmm:

Nations who are almost soley muslim who's government's follow or accept Islamic law. Nations like Lebonan, Taliban Afghanistan, present day Iraq, Palestine. Those are the types of nations a speak of.

Lebanon's constitution requires that the top governmental jobs be filled by members of different faiths. The President must be a maronite Catholic Christian, the Prime Minister must be a Sunni Muslim and the Speaker of the Parliament must be a Shi'a Muslim. So I am not entirely convinced you know exactly what you are talking about.

[Barbarian-Bob]

There is no other living example of a religion which has so much control over the actions of its followers. It seems that with devout Islam as a country's government it is doomed to be host for extremism and war. The current situation in Iraq provides evidence for my claim considering that the once enthusiastic and peaceful people of Iraq have turned to civil war due to their intolerance and hate.

Well, medieval christianity made people do a lot of strange things (crusades anyone?), but that was because of corrupt people in an impressionable time, not a corrupt religion. The same thing could be said about Islam.

[Shaun]

It seems to me that Islam is an unstable religion. If you look back into history it appears as democracy, tolerance, and civil rights began to florish in the West in the centuries after the beginning of the renaissance, the Muslim middle east chose to leave itself in the dark ages.

What, does your history books miss out am age known as the dark ages? What about when teh Muslim Empire was teh beacon of civilisation and when the European west was nothing more than tribesman living in the ruins of a once great Roman empire?
Even in the middle ages, the Muslims were very civilised and tolerant of Christian pilgrims to Jerusalem, and they still were very inventive, after all was it not teh Mumluk dynastie that had very early propotype handguns long before the West even though that they were useful?

There is no other living example of a religion which has so much control over the actions of its followers. It seems that with devout Islam as a country's government it is doomed to be host for extremism and war. The current situation in Iraq provides evidence for my claim considering that the once enthusiastic and peaceful people of Iraq have turned to civil war due to their intolerance and hate.

its not as if the Pope was that powerful in the Middle ages, was it? After all, he never called for and puhed for the Crusades, he never called for any inquisitions, he never ground science and innovation to a halt, did he?

What causes this? I'm not going to turn butter up the issue claiming that it is only certain muslims who are "bad" or "unstable" because I don't believe that is true. There must be something ingrained in the minds of middle eastern muslims which makes the more prone to hateful behavior. They don't have an example of tolerance, equality, and peace in their lives to turn to and learn from and the one that is trying to help invain they are bred to hate (the United States).

No, its called brainwashing. They are brainwashed by powerful extremist Leaders. There is nothing in the Middle Easterner brain that makes them more suspectable to hatered of the West, infact even thinking that there is some kind of gene that makes them more hateful is ridicolous.

You may take my views as harsh but they needed to be said. Something needs to be done or else the entire middle east will break out in war. Or maybe that's what needs to happen for them to see their own ridiculous path back to the stone age.

your thoughts

No, your views are not harsh, but that of a misguided Westerner who is very fearful of Islam and its followers, no offence.
Yes, a big war probably will happen, but I can garuantee that Bush will be the one who makes the first move.

[Lusted]

Please can we keep in civil guys and not result to insults or trolls.

[boofhead]

Legionairre I agree with you in principle but would not be so generous to the accused.

I will refrain from posting my own thoughts and beliefs on the matter here as it is an inappropraite forum to speak of 'hate' and I would get in to trouble for speaking my mind.

I am here for RTR.

When I have an urge to express myself in this matter there are other forums!!!

[LegionnaireX]

No, its called brainwashing. They are brainwashed by powerful extremist Leaders. There is nothing in the Middle Easterner brain that makes them more suspectable to hatered of the West, infact even thinking that there is some kind of gene that makes them more hateful is ridicolous.

No, your views are not harsh, but that of a brain washed Moronic Westerner who is very fearful of Islam and its followers, no offence.
Yes, a big war probably will happen, but I can garuantee that Bush will be the one who makes the first move.

So I'm a moron? Since when have I been brainwashed? I am not fearful of Islam at all, any idiot can see that the Middle East is unstable and war-torn. The question I am asking is why is that so.

By the way, I saying something is ingrained in the mind does not have anything to do with genes. Where you got that idea I have no clue. I'm talking about indoctrination, but you seem to be using the term brainwash.

We are not here to discuss medieval christianity either, but I will argue against your point anyway. Medieval Catholisicm was ruled by the corrupt. Popes took advantage of the illiterate masses by dictating to them false scriptures for his own personal gain. Medieval christians knew very little about the true nature of Chrstianity according to the gospel. This all changed with the Reformation and the renaissance. Also, I'm not sure what history books you have been reading but medieval Muslims weren't exactly the power puff girls. They were responsible for many hideous acts during that period as well.

It is ridiculous and counter-productive to try to insult Christianity's past when discussing Islam's present. Christian Europe has now turned into the democratic west, which relative to the turmoiled middle east, is orderly and peaceful. In the middle east there is war between Islamic sects, intolerance, and destruction.

After Saddam's regime as toppled there was hope for a democratic nation with peace between Sunnies and Shiites. Now left to govern themselves without the iron fist of a fascist regime they have decided to start killing each other! This type of ridiculous intolerance is visible nowhere else in the world. If they want to live a self-destructive feudal lifestyle maybe we should let them, the world would be better without indoctrinated hate and extremism.

[Rush Limbaugh]

When I have an urge to express myself in this matter there are other forums!!!

Thats what this forum is for. Its not about games. Feel free to post your thoughts . Just dont flame anyone.

[removeduser_487563287433]

So I'm a moron? Since when have I been brainwashed? I am not fearful of Islam at all, any idiot can see that the Middle East is unstable and war-torn. The question I am asking is why is that so.

By the way, I saying something is ingrained in the mind does not have anything to do with genes. Where you got that idea I have no clue. I'm talking about indoctrination, but you seem to be using the term brainwash.

We are not here to discuss medieval christianity either, but I will argue against your point anyway. Medieval Catholisicm was ruled by the corrupt. Popes took advantage of the illiterate masses by dictating to them false scriptures for his own personal gain. Medieval christians knew very little about the true nature of Chrstianity according to the gospel. This all changed with the Reformation and the renaissance. Also, I'm not sure what history books you have been reading but medieval Muslims weren't exactly the power puff girls. They were responsible for many hideous acts during that period as well.

It is ridiculous and counter-productive to try to insult Christianity's past when discussing Islam's present. Christian Europe has now turned into the democratic west, which relative to the turmoiled middle east, is orderly and peaceful. In the middle east there is war between Islamic sects, intolerance, and destruction.

After Saddam's regime as toppled there was hope for a democratic nation with peace between Sunnies and Shiites. Now left to govern themselves without the iron fist of a fascist regime they have decided to start killing each other! This type of ridiculous intolerance is visible nowhere else in the world. If they want to live a self-destructive feudal lifestyle maybe we should let them, the world would be better without indoctrinated hate and extremism.

But does any of this mean there is a correlation between the religion of Islam and governmental instability?

[Shaun]

We are not here to discuss medieval christianity either, but I will argue against your point anyway. Medieval Catholisicm was ruled by the corrupt. Popes took advantage of the illiterate masses by dictating to them false scriptures for his own personal gain. Medieval christians knew very little about the true nature of Chrstianity according to the gospel.

Now you are beginning to see how Islam and the Middle East is today.

This all changed with the Reformation and the renaissance. Also, I'm not sure what history books you have been reading but medieval Muslims weren't exactly the power puff girls. They were responsible for many hideous acts during that period as well.

Im not denying that, but my point still stands, the Medieval Muslims were FAR more tolerant than the Medieval Catholics. Take for example the Crusades, they killed many Christians as well, and were very unchristian like too.

It is ridiculous and counter-productive to try to insult Christianity's past when discussing Islam's present. Christian Europe has now turned into the democratic west, which relative to the turmoiled middle east, is orderly and peaceful. In the middle east there is war between Islamic sects, intolerance, and destruction.

I know.

After Saddam's regime as toppled there was hope for a democratic nation with peace between Sunnies and Shiites. Now left to govern themselves without the iron fist of a fascist regime they have decided to start killing each other!

No, only a select few have started to do this. The masses are very peaceful and respectful to Western forces, and just want to live a peaceful life.

This type of ridiculous intolerance is visible nowhere else in the world.

Northern Ireland, Glasgow.

If they want to live a self-destructive feudal lifestyle maybe we should let them, the world would be better without indoctrinated hate and extremism.

[Rush Limbaugh]

The problem is that from my reading of the Koran only the radicals have it correct. The rest are misbelievers and aggording to the Koran are even wprse than us infidels as theve been told the word and do not follow it. Sort of like how christianity says those who never heard the word of Jesus maybe saved but those who have heard the the word and deny it shall surely burn in hell.

And isnt it strange that this so called religion of peace and tolerance who respects the religion pf those of the book(Judaism and Christinaity) when given control of a nation like Saudi Arabia dont even allow a church or synagag {SP}anywhere in the whole country and that Christians and Jews in many of these nations certainly are treated as second class citizens.

[LegionnaireX]

Northern Ireland, Glasgow.

I assume you mean the IRA? Fair example, but this is on a much smaller scale that Islamic extremism is.

[Richard the Lionheart]

The problem is that from my reading of the Koran only the radicals have it correct. The rest are misbelievers and aggording to the Koran are even wprse than us infidels as theve been told the word and do not follow it. Sort of like how christianity says those who never heard the word of Jesus maybe saved but those who have heard the the word and deny it shall surely burn in hell.

And isnt it strange that this so called religion of peace and tolerance who respects the religion pf those of the book(Judaism and Christinaity) when given control of a nation like Saudi Arabia dont even allow a church or synagag {SP}anywhere in the whole country and that Christians and Jews in many of these nations certainly are treated as second class citizens.

The only people who seem to think that Islamic Radicals are the ones who are reading the Koran correctly are far-right conservatives who are eager for war and the spread of religious based prejudices and hate; when in reality the other 1 billion true Muslims all agree that Islamic Radicals are far from being true Muslims.

It's surprising how a non-muslim would want to tell 1 billion other Muslims that they are not really muslims since they are not like Islamic Radicals. And it's funny how a non-muslim would want to tell 1 billion actual Muslims that they are reading the Koran incorrectly.

[Sardonicus]

Ohhhh nooo. I'm not going to fall into the trap of calling a spade a spade.
I've already been banned for that once.

After all, we all know that terrorists are muslims for the most part, and that a "muslim" would never do anything to harm anyone.
It's the rest of the world that's evil.

(Sardonicus is not responsible for the content of any written post in which any individual claims to have been mentally harmed and/or offended at his personel opinion no matter how much said opinion conforms to the standards of the politicaly correct and/or "correctly challenged".)

[carl-the-conqueror]

We are not here to discuss medieval christianity either, but I will argue against your point anyway. Medieval Catholisicm was ruled by the corrupt. Popes took advantage of the illiterate masses by dictating to them false scriptures for his own personal gain. Medieval christians knew very little about the true nature of Chrstianity according to the gospel. This all changed with the Reformation and the renaissance. Also, I'm not sure what history books you have been reading but medieval Muslims weren't exactly the power puff girls. They were responsible for many hideous acts during that period as well.

many islamic people cannot read the koran, the same thing is being done here.

in the better educated, more developed islamic places (U.A.E. Quatar etc.) are quite peaceful, and just as prosperous as the western countries.

the reason there are so many wars is because of oil.

[RusskiSoldat]

Here's the thing: the Renaissance wasn't universal.
Islam flourished after their conquest of what for a long time was the periphery of the Ottoman Empire and from what I know almost all Muslim land in North Africa, Europe and the Middle East was Ottoman, so they went the way of the Ottoman Empire: reaching their greatest height at the gates of Veinna.
Since then Muslim civilization was in decline, and after the Ottoman collapse reached a low point.
Thanks to the discovery of oil, some countries became quite succesful, and Islam is currently on the upswing, although quite extremist and somewhat regressive at the moment.
I can draw no direct parallels to this in history and therefore am unable to predict with any degree of accuracy what will happen.
Islam is not fundamentally unstable, rather any extremist religion is.
Dark Ages christianity wasn't exactly too nice either.

[over-man]

I don't think islam is any more unstable than medieval christianity, which is very, very unstable.