Romans in the New World

[admrial90]

I don't think Rome ever went to the new world, or at least they never made it back to to tell about it. I am working on a short story, and would like to discus possible motives for Rome to send an expedition to the west. I want to assume that word reached Rome about it and that new technology was developed for the purpose.

If it seems unlikely to you, please share, I would like as much input on this subject as possible, if you have links or advise on reading material I would like to hear it. I have done some research on the subject, but I need some input, thanks!

[Valhallachen]

well im absolutly sure that no ancient roman was ever on the american continent, but the archeologist thor heyerdahl sailed on an agyptian papyrus boat from narokko to barbeidos in 1970... and Leif Eriksson sailed to nortern america from groenland 1000 years before... i dont know much bout ancient ships, and how far a agyptian boat made out of papyrus, a skandinavian boat and a roman ship are comparable, but just google "Ra II" (heyerdahls ship) to get some input bout IF it was technicaly possible...

bout a motivation to go there? well im pretty sure the romans were aware of the fact that the world was ball-shaped... so there you go...

[Valhallachen]

well im absolutly sure that no ancient roman was ever on the american continent, but the archeologist thor heyerdahl sailed on an agyptian papyrus boat from narokko to barbeidos in 1970... and Leif Eriksson sailed to nortern america from groenland 1000 years before... i dont know much bout ancient ships, and how far a agyptian boat made out of papyrus, a skandinavian boat and a roman ship are comparable, but just google "Ra II" (heyerdahls ship) to get some input bout IF it was technicaly possible...bout a motivation to go there? well im pretty sure the romans were aware of the fact that the world was ball-shaped... so there you go...

[Sharpe]

Get off TWC. Drink two bottles of wine (you can do them both at the same time and call yourself Amy Winehands if you want) Write drunk. Edit sober.

My special creative writing tactic.

[Jepekula]

Well, in one of Don Rosa's Duck comics, there were some Phoenicians who sailed to the New World but died of cold and crap and then the native Americans used their boat to sail to the Old World and map the coastlines.
So, why the eff not.

[Slydessertfox]

There's evidence that the Phoenicians reached the America's. Though the Romans had no interest in doing anything of the sorts and probably could not themselves.

[Hengest]

No there is no evidence actually, but there are good arguments and popular theories!
There is evidence however that the Chinese reached Australia in the 1400s, they certainly reached East Africa without a doubt.

[Slydessertfox]

http://phoenicia.org/america.html

http://phoenicia.org/carthanewworld.html

[Hengest]

http://phoenicia.org/america.html

http://phoenicia.org/carthanewworld.html

Yes I am aware of the theories but none of the stuff there is scientific evidence. I have yet to read an academic essay citing evidence. This is not academic it is written by an amatuer.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Yes I am aware of the theories but none of the stuff there is scientific evidence. I have yet to read an academic essay citing evidence. This is not academic it is written by an amatuer.

There are some academics thatembraced those theories as the one I quoted above...

[PROMETHEUS ts]

Well despite official archeology and historical fonts there are some unexplained findings of roman stuff in america ... From coins to shipwrecks , but the most notable is the roman head of Tecaxic-Calixtlahuaca found in an ancient aztec tomb.
some believe that it is evidence of pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact between Rome and the Americas, a view strongly promoted by the Meso-American archaeology specialist Romeo H. Hristov.
Though there are other abnormal findings as well in the americas not last phoenician findings ...
Also there is report of crossreverse travel from native americans to europe in roman times like the event ofthe roman Proconsul in Gaul, who was given certain Indians by the king of the Sueves, who, trading out of India, had been driven by storms and thrown up in Germany...
from Pomponius Mela’s writings and the other from Pliny’s Natural History who both, believed that the world was a sphere.
Also findings of cocaine was found in some egyptian mummies , figurative art in roman mosaics show american kind of fruits like pineapples...
Lets not forget that most are theoires though but a lso that romans inherited the knowledges of explorations of phoenicians , greeks and egyptians.

[Aelita]

While in actual history there is almost no evidence to suggest the Romans knew about the new world, Columbus's voyage took place less then 40 years after the Roman empire fell (Sack of Constantinople) and the vikings visited the new world well before that. It is not hard to imagine an alternate history where the Romans found the americas. The biggest problem would be finding roman motivation to send an expadition as the worlds wealthy trade routes lay in the east at the time

[theDaedricPrince]

There will never be an official say on this topic unless we humans can create a working time travel system. Yes, there were coins and such. But someone from the modern times could've found one and dropped it there. You will never ever know.

[PROMETHEUS ts]

hard to speculate when you find items sealed in a precolumbian time tomb though or other stuff that are carbodated befoure europeans times .

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

The most phoenician stuff which was found for example in Brazil in the 70s and 80s is just fake. That is one reason why for a long time no serious scientist would claim a theroy based on a connection to the old world. But fact is that Phoecian Ships (Merchand ships not Warships) were the only ones which could make it over the ocean until the vikings.

But there are new theories which indicate that possibly Carthaginians, Balearic People and Celto-Iberians made it over the Ocean. A week ago i wrote a summery about the research with over 20 pics, but the current status of the forum make it impossible for me to size the pics correctly. Right now they would be to large for the forum. Has someone made the same expierience here recently?

Anyway i will post it on the Vestigia Vestitatis soon.

[The Forgotten]

Atlantis!

But seriously I thought the Romans were bad at seafaring. All I thought they really did was copy the Greeks Trireme and modify it a slight bit. Maybe I am wrong but sailing in the Atlantic Ocean is much different than sailing in the Med Sea. Of coarse this has to do about the theory that Romans actually made it to the new world. You may do whatever you wish with your story and I wish you luck!

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

Atlantis!

But seriously I thought the Romans were bad at seafaring. All I thought they really did was copy the Greeks Trireme and modify it a slight bit. Maybe I am wrong but sailing in the Atlantic Ocean is much different than sailing in the Med Sea. Of coarse this has to do about the theory that Romans actually made it to the new world. You may do whatever you wish with your story and I wish you luck!

That is why i wrote about Phoenician Merchant ships:



This ship could made it over the ocean. Acient Warships couldn't do it. With this kind of ships the Phoencians could cross all over the Mediterran sea and traveled on the atlantic coast of africa. The most ancient sailers would stay on the coast. They did not.

[Post Hoc]

@ Prometheus

plagiarize much?

Exact excerpt from wikipedia - "Because the head appears to be similar in style to artifacts of Roman origin, some believe that it is evidence of pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact between Rome and the Americas, a view strongly promoted by the Meso-American archaeology specialist Romeo H. Hristov.^[1] However, several other explanations for its presence have been put forward."

[Dan113112]

Just because something looks possibly Roman doesn't mean it is. The Chinese also once posessed a fleet capable of reaching North America. Some archeologists believe the Chinese reached the New World. The Vikings and Columbus certainly did. Phoenicians once explored West Africa but we have no real evidence that they went any further into open ocean.

[Marcus Aemilius Lepidus]

Just because something looks possibly Roman doesn't mean it is. The Chinese also once posessed a fleet capable of reaching North America. Some archeologists believe the Chinese reached the New World. The Vikings and Columbus certainly did. Phoenicians once explored West Africa but we have no real evidence that they went any further into open ocean.

If you take just written evidence than you have Strabo who described a journey which based from a Carthaginian text. In this text it is mentioned that a Merchand ship was driven away on a journey west of africa and that the ship arrived after days an island which was described as rich of forests, with shippable rivers, without human population, but with many big wild animals. The most people see in this description Teneriffa or Madeira, but it is interesting that Cabral decribed when he saw the Coast of Brazil by Recife exactly the same and named it "Ilha de la Vera Cruz" - Isle of the true Cross. Obviously the describtion of Strabo can't be Teneriffa or Madeira and so it most be another location and description like the one of Cabral could give other possibilities.