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Thread: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

  1. #1401

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zapp_Brannigan View Post
    Hi JaM, great to see people still putting so much time in improving on this game.

    I'm trying my first compain with the United Provinces and I'm really enjoying your land and see battle rework. And I believe you managed to fix the lingering threat of the game crashing on an AI faction getting to many separate armies for the game engine.

    However, after playing my campaign until year 1717 at normal difficulty, I was wondering if the economy system as you changed it is working as you intended it, with the massive region wealth growth from roads (10-25-50) and higher wealth growth effect from enlightenment research. About the latest changes you wrote:
    ďMain change is in fact, that economy buildings now don't provide wealth growth bonus, which is now strictly a function of tax rate, government type, culture and technology. This means city wealth doesn't grow exponentially, and is much more subtle and more dependent on overall tax rate. Because of this, player will have less money than before, his wealth will grow slower, therefore later game wont be as easy as before.Ē
    Here my two cents on what I see happening in my campaign:

    Because of the bonus from the roads (which you did not name as a function of wealth growth bonus), but also the high wealth growth bonusses from research, my regions get a lot richer, and a lot faster in the mod compared to the standard Vanilla game. And since industry does not have this effect any more, but itís all moved to roads and research, the wealth growth is the same for every region in the game. Iím afraid this is making the economic and research strategy rather one sided. Itís an enormous advantage to invest in roads - even on a tiny island - and enlightenment research (which you already like to research so you can research other things quicker afterwards), and industrial research and buildings just canít seem to compete with it.
    I really liked how in Vanilla industrialisation plays a significant role in developing an empire (with morale penalties for lower classes to consider) opposed to colonialization (securing trade commodities) giving a different route to economic power than sea trade nations. It also makes sense to me that more efficient production leads to an economic multiplier effect as goods gives higher returns, makes for cheaper products for the lower classes allowing them to consume more, and higher returns for higher classes leading to more capital to further invest. Hence a positive effect on the economic growth due to industrialization. With my previous campaign in Vanilla with Prussia it change my research priorities more to farming and industry to exploit the industrial potential of the provinces with multiple towns. While with a sea trade faction like the United Provinces I would take a different strategy in research and investment to develop my income and build up my empire. And there is a larger benefit to conquer regions with multiple wealthy towns.
    In short:
    - Iím afraid it leads to a one dimensional economical game play: improve roads and research and watch your town wealth grow (especially when you lower middle/high class tax). Nothing else seems to beat that. Developing towns just canít compete.
    - The AIís are not employing this tactic and will easily fall behind. What kind of road an AI region has at the game start wll make a huge difference on how they will develop (they might do better on higher difficulty setting).
    - The colonies are not about exploiting the natural resources anymore, and getting the trade commodities which requires you to protect your trade routes. Just new points for town wealth to accumulate, which will outshine the income from the plantations soon enough.

    Example from my campaign:
    In my complain I conquered the pirate islands Tabago and Leewards early, before Spain declared war on me and I later took Flanders, and industrial region with 2 wealthy towns. However, due to the current system, my research focus, and the roads the total region wealth of these islands is near 5000 already in 1717. Half from accumulated town wealth currently going up 44 each turn (and I can make that 71 lowering higher class tax 1 step which seems like the thing to do). Their income is already way past Flanders who did not had its roads developed yet and Spain did not research in the philosophical research three. Hence the islands with a few thousand inhabitants are a significant bigger economic powerhouse than an wealthy industrial region as Flanders. And also other regions I can currently click on: Cologne 3000 total region wealth, Hanover 2400 region wealth (half my tiny Islands) and Prague 1300 (less than a third of my tiny Islands). Prague doesnít have a road, and Austria has no philosophical research yet in my campaign, so the city is still at -10 town wealth per turn. Hence its starting town wealth is reduce to 40 by 1717, because their industry has no effect on it anymore.

    I donít mean to be negative, because I like a lot of things you done, the battles, the double turns and longer construction times and cost for example. But I loved economic system in Vanilla. I get that you had to alter things due to the doubled amount of turns, yet I donít think this is what you intended to achieve with choosing industrial buildings to balance town wealth growth. I think the Vanilla balance for town wealth was great between research, tax and industrialisation. So if it was not your intention, this might help you reconsider somethings. Since I want to keep using your mod I might try to mod for the first time myself to see if I can just restore the wealth bonus on roads, research, and industry and most is fixed. Personally I would also let industry have more base income compared to ports as sea trade emphases empires get their worth from their ports through their trade commodities. Industry should be an alternative focus of economic growth.
    Hi @JaM, nice to see you came back to the mod. Are you planning to fix these economic problems? Waiting for the update!

  2. #1402
    Laetus
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    20

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    I just recently discovered this mod and it is Genius! Wow, it feels like a whole new game. I have 4000 hours playing mainly Darthmod Empire and I needed a new challenge. Thanks.

  3. #1403
    Campidoctor
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    Jan 2005
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    AEnima City, USA
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Edit: oops

  4. #1404
    Campidoctor
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    Jan 2005
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    1,646

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Is there any way to make it so that Winter is only 1 of the 4 turns per year, instead of two as it is now? Could more easily rationalize turns as seasons of three months each.

  5. #1405

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Hello. It's been many years since I've tried to play this game so I feel like I'm starting from scratch when it comes to mods. I'm trying to load the mod just as the directions say but it's not working. I'm extracting the files to the data folder in my Empire game. I start hte game but nothing looks like it's been modded. Help an old gamer get up to speed again. Thanks

  6. #1406

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    If you added everything as described, it most likely is active.. there is no visualisation present in ER.. its gameplay mod in the first place.

  7. #1407

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    If you added everything as described, it most likely is active.. there is no visualisation present in ER.. its gameplay mod in the first place.
    Haha! Yep, thanks for clarifying. I figured that out eventually. It's subtle but I find the gameplay much more tolerable. Even the battles, the enemy units don't seem to stumble into each other endlessly readjusting as much. Great work. One question, I'm getting CTDs upon battles when I try to add the HD environments Orbem pack. Is that not compatible with ER5?

    EDIT: Also, all my general units are infantry. Is this a bug or intentional? Do you just have to recruit a normal general's guard to get him on horseback?
    Last edited by ♔Dignan♔; February 19, 2022 at 11:41 AM.

  8. #1408

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    If you are getting CTDs, then most likely its not compatible.. i dont know what is changed in that mod, but it must be something that collides with ER..

  9. #1409

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    I noticed when fighting naval battles the AI will always lose one extra ship than what the battle losses actually are. Even if the AI wins with no losses after it goes back to the campaign map he will be short one ship.

  10. #1410

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    I noticed that on VH setting that unit recruitment is cheaper than on lower difficulty is that intentional?

  11. #1411

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    i'm currently working on ER and NER updates, which will try to fix all these little issues, plus rework some mechanics for more interesting and immersive gameplay.. as a Teaser - Trade Nodes in new version will be renamed to Oversea Colony slots, they will have fixed amount of trade resource, which will be possible to claim by single ship. Every ship (combat or trade ship) will be able to occupy these Colonies and secure these resources. Anyway due to limited amount of these colonies, Player will have to fight other countries for control of these nodes to gain more profit from these resources. stacking 20 stack fleet into single node will no longer work the same way, but of course, more ships protecting the colony, harder it is for enemy to take the slot from you... This should make those Trade theaters a lot more interesting, and hopefully provide higher incentives to build the fleet to control these colonies..

    (complete naval overhaul is planned as well, I'm currently testing a bit more "realistic sailing model" which should make the naval battles a bit more interesting to play... of course, it wont be anywhere as good as in Ultimate Admiral: Age of Sail, but hopefully it will be closer to it, than before - I'm not magician, i can only work with what game allows..)

  12. #1412

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeon26 View Post
    I noticed that on VH setting that unit recruitment is cheaper than on lower difficulty is that intentional?
    I'll have a look and fix it in the planned update.

  13. #1413
    Skillreaver's Avatar Civis
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Cracow , Poland
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    154

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    i'm currently working on ER and NER updates, which will try to fix all these little issues, plus rework some mechanics for more interesting and immersive gameplay.. as a Teaser - Trade Nodes in new version will be renamed to Oversea Colony slots, they will have fixed amount of trade resource, which will be possible to claim by single ship. Every ship (combat or trade ship) will be able to occupy these Colonies and secure these resources. Anyway due to limited amount of these colonies, Player will have to fight other countries for control of these nodes to gain more profit from these resources. stacking 20 stack fleet into single node will no longer work the same way, but of course, more ships protecting the colony, harder it is for enemy to take the slot from you... This should make those Trade theaters a lot more interesting, and hopefully provide higher incentives to build the fleet to control these colonies..

    (complete naval overhaul is planned as well, I'm currently testing a bit more "realistic sailing model" which should make the naval battles a bit more interesting to play... of course, it wont be anywhere as good as in Ultimate Admiral: Age of Sail, but hopefully it will be closer to it, than before - I'm not magician, i can only work with what game allows..)
    Wow that's great news! I was planning to start some new campaign now that I finally finished the H/H polish one

    I may have overstreched my empire considering the amount of troops is available for Poland but the situation seems to be under control.What is interesting neither Austria or Prussia(well I had one war with Prussia in the beginning but that was it) attacked me and it's past 1775 now in my campaign so there will be no partitions this time I guess Even if they attack...let them come to face the battle hardened and extremely experienced armies that conquered the Western Europe and the Spanish Empire itself which was really mighty.It took me half of this campaign to beat them.It was just a really immersive experience - I still remember a few battles especially early ones that decided the shape of my country and that is amazing

    So in the new update will there be some changes regarding the population based recruitment system? And one thing that in my opinion adds to the immersion and breaks it in the same time in empire..the regions trading.I know that the AI can make a diplomacy a comedy with this feature not to mention the crazy deals that AI pulls off which can break the immmersion but..the ability to give back a region for peace or to secure the protectorate by giving it some land...That was really fun in vanilla and I think it could be fun in empire realism.If only there was a way to prevent AI from giving cherokees a piece of land in Europe for example
    Last edited by Skillreaver; July 26, 2022 at 07:02 AM.

  14. #1414

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Actually, there are separate scripts created for each playable faction, to allow player to trade the provinces, but not the AI.. you just need to copy appropriate file in the campaign folder.

  15. #1415
    Skillreaver's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    Actually, there are separate scripts created for each playable faction, to allow player to trade the provinces, but not the AI.. you just need to copy appropriate file in the campaign folder.
    Oh I had no idea..my bad.I'm gonna get to it then...thanks

  16. #1416

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    I'll have a look and fix it in the planned update.
    I noticed now that in VH difficulty the naval upkeep is lower than on other difficulty settings just short of about a 1000 difference.

  17. #1417

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Just getting into this mod, and it looks promising. One thing I immediately find strange tho is how Generals are now all in Grenadier units.

    I understand the rational was that the AI would keep using Generals as Heavy Cav and putting them in suicide charges, killing the general instantly. Personally, I've never seen that in Empire but maybe its an issue specifically for this mod.

    But I don't think this is the right solution for Generals. Its weird not having him mounted and being used as part of the line. I also think it make him MORE vulnerable since he can't run away as well.

    What I'd propose instead would be to make the General's Staff light cav with a much smaller unit size to keep the player and AI from using them as heavy cav and increase their ability to buff the army to make them worth taking over another combat unit.

    EDIT: Also, Great Britain starts out with negative income, is that intentional?
    Last edited by SacremPyrobolum; September 19, 2023 at 01:26 PM.

  18. #1418

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by SacremPyrobolum View Post
    Just getting into this mod, and it looks promising. One thing I immediately find strange tho is how Generals are now all in Grenadier units.

    I understand the rational was that the AI would keep using Generals as Heavy Cav and putting them in suicide charges, killing the general instantly. Personally, I've never seen that in Empire but maybe its an issue specifically for this mod.

    But I don't think this is the right solution for Generals. Its weird not having him mounted and being used as part of the line. I also think it make him MORE vulnerable since he can't run away as well.

    What I'd propose instead would be to make the General's Staff light cav with a much smaller unit size to keep the player and AI from using them as heavy cav and increase their ability to buff the army to make them worth taking over another combat unit.

    EDIT: Also, Great Britain starts out with negative income, is that intentional?

  19. #1419

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by ypotis View Post
    IT SI EXACTLY WHAT I WAS THINKING! The nobility in those times used to own powerful rifles, had excellent horses and the nobility was the backbone of the army officers.

  20. #1420

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Hi I can't agree. Realism is great, but there are limitations to the reality in the game.


    Infantry general is great, a rare mod where this is done and from me +100 to karma.
    1. the general does not need to run away - this is an excellent reserve, if they were captured, surrounded and defeated, the cat could not protect the general, then let him run away along with everyone else if he is not killed)
    2. cavalry seems to me to be a limitation of the engine. even if you make the general in the rear stand further away and run away from everyone in order to save his life, then the guns will demolish him first.


    I can never overcome the temptation to shoot the general with cannons...and the cavalry is easy to hit. You can’t really shoot infantry.

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