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Thread: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

  1. #1341

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    it was removed to prevent AI from selling home regions to Native Americans for example... nothing is more immersion breaking than finding Maratha on Bahamas or Iroquois in India
    Okay understood, thanks for quick answer. Great Mod anyway.

  2. #1342
    FERRDO's Avatar Laetus
    Join Date
    Nov 2017

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Love this mod. I'm playing Austria and moving my way through the War of Spanish Succession and having a blast! The battles are terrific and definitely feel as if they have phases to them like historically - instead of initial combat phase and then routing the enemy and it being done with, they rally and come in again from new angles (while your own troops do this as well).

    Economy seems well balanced as well, and I like that the entire aesthetic of vanilla was NOT overhauled with this. I'm a big fan of a lot of the vanilla aesthetics.

    I have a question about house rules - are there any specific things the devs recommend to provide greater historical accuracy that cannot be addressed with gameplay tweaks? Like only certain units in armies or navies, number of armies, etc?

    Thanks for all the great work!

  3. #1343

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Hi JaM, great to see people still putting so much time in improving on this game.

    I'm trying my first compain with the United Provinces and I'm really enjoying your land and see battle rework. And I believe you managed to fix the lingering threat of the game crashing on an AI faction getting to many separate armies for the game engine.

    However, after playing my campaign until year 1717 at normal difficulty, I was wondering if the economy system as you changed it is working as you intended it, with the massive region wealth growth from roads (10-25-50) and higher wealth growth effect from enlightenment research. About the latest changes you wrote:
    Main change is in fact, that economy buildings now don't provide wealth growth bonus, which is now strictly a function of tax rate, government type, culture and technology. This means city wealth doesn't grow exponentially, and is much more subtle and more dependent on overall tax rate. Because of this, player will have less money than before, his wealth will grow slower, therefore later game wont be as easy as before.”
    Here my two cents on what I see happening in my campaign:

    Because of the bonus from the roads (which you did not name as a function of wealth growth bonus), but also the high wealth growth bonusses from research, my regions get a lot richer, and a lot faster in the mod compared to the standard Vanilla game. And since industry does not have this effect any more, but it’s all moved to roads and research, the wealth growth is the same for every region in the game. I’m afraid this is making the economic and research strategy rather one sided. It’s an enormous advantage to invest in roads - even on a tiny island - and enlightenment research (which you already like to research so you can research other things quicker afterwards), and industrial research and buildings just can’t seem to compete with it.
    I really liked how in Vanilla industrialisation plays a significant role in developing an empire (with morale penalties for lower classes to consider) opposed to colonialization (securing trade commodities) giving a different route to economic power than sea trade nations. It also makes sense to me that more efficient production leads to an economic multiplier effect as goods gives higher returns, makes for cheaper products for the lower classes allowing them to consume more, and higher returns for higher classes leading to more capital to further invest. Hence a positive effect on the economic growth due to industrialization. With my previous campaign in Vanilla with Prussia it change my research priorities more to farming and industry to exploit the industrial potential of the provinces with multiple towns. While with a sea trade faction like the United Provinces I would take a different strategy in research and investment to develop my income and build up my empire. And there is a larger benefit to conquer regions with multiple wealthy towns.
    In short:
    - I’m afraid it leads to a one dimensional economical game play: improve roads and research and watch your town wealth grow (especially when you lower middle/high class tax). Nothing else seems to beat that. Developing towns just can’t compete.
    - The AI’s are not employing this tactic and will easily fall behind. What kind of road an AI region has at the game start wll make a huge difference on how they will develop (they might do better on higher difficulty setting).
    - The colonies are not about exploiting the natural resources anymore, and getting the trade commodities which requires you to protect your trade routes. Just new points for town wealth to accumulate, which will outshine the income from the plantations soon enough.

    Example from my campaign:
    In my complain I conquered the pirate islands Tabago and Leewards early, before Spain declared war on me and I later took Flanders, and industrial region with 2 wealthy towns. However, due to the current system, my research focus, and the roads the total region wealth of these islands is near 5000 already in 1717. Half from accumulated town wealth currently going up 44 each turn (and I can make that 71 lowering higher class tax 1 step which seems like the thing to do). Their income is already way past Flanders who did not had its roads developed yet and Spain did not research in the philosophical research three. Hence the islands with a few thousand inhabitants are a significant bigger economic powerhouse than an wealthy industrial region as Flanders. And also other regions I can currently click on: Cologne 3000 total region wealth, Hanover 2400 region wealth (half my tiny Islands) and Prague 1300 (less than a third of my tiny Islands). Prague doesn’t have a road, and Austria has no philosophical research yet in my campaign, so the city is still at -10 town wealth per turn. Hence its starting town wealth is reduce to 40 by 1717, because their industry has no effect on it anymore.

    I don’t mean to be negative, because I like a lot of things you done, the battles, the double turns and longer construction times and cost for example. But I loved economic system in Vanilla. I get that you had to alter things due to the doubled amount of turns, yet I don’t think this is what you intended to achieve with choosing industrial buildings to balance town wealth growth. I think the Vanilla balance for town wealth was great between research, tax and industrialisation. So if it was not your intention, this might help you reconsider somethings. Since I want to keep using your mod I might try to mod for the first time myself to see if I can just restore the wealth bonus on roads, research, and industry and most is fixed. Personally I would also let industry have more base income compared to ports as sea trade emphases empires get their worth from their ports through their trade commodities. Industry should be an alternative focus of economic growth.

  4. #1344

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    thanks for feedback

  5. #1345

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Hello JaM

    Thanks for your mods, I'm really glad someone makes realistic mods that keep the vanilla overhaul feeling
    I have a question though : is it normal that AI is very passive in Campaign ? I read all your guide/design changes explications but couldn't find anything related to this

    I understand AI prefers to build a strong economy than invading its neighbours, but still it seems very passive.
    At turn one, a war occurred between Poland and Prussia with their respective allies, yet none of the belligerents have actually captured a single city (I'm now in 1706)
    A British fleet filled with a very elite army just keeps waiting right next to my harbour and I'm still waiting for them to declare war (I'm playing as France btw); that let me plenty of time to recall my armies I sent to Genoa. If only they had attack, I would certainly have lost Paris, but now I patiently wait for them to declare war, come to me and die.
    It's 1706 and except my conquests, not a single settlement changed ownership although wars are officially occurring

    (PS : I also noticed your mod is supposedly including a battlefield smoke submod, but I only get vanilla effects in my game. I downloaded all parts and followed installation instructions, did I miss something ? I'm on Mac btw)

    I hope you understand my poor English grammar, and let me thank you again for your great work !

  6. #1346

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    I have just tried out the newest version and here's what I noticed most for now:


    - Campaign stratpos overhaul as it was seriously lacking before with outdated units not in line with the new ones allowed for recruitment. Also proper naming of units is very much welcome. This is a huge plus.
    - Campaign economy overhaul is also very good. I like the idea about fixed industry GDP and growth coming mainly from education and ministers - this is closest to real life I think. You might eventually consider giving substantially higher economy buff from industry,farms and mines to make it more worthy in later game.
    - Infantry morale based experience without impact on performance is very nice and properly shows the idea behind historical valour of regiments - very nice idea and fits good in ETW.
    - Light infantry finally very useful. You can not ignore skirmishers harassing your army anymore which is what they were meant for.
    - Administration costs needed change for late game. I see that apart from increasing max regions to 240, also the logaritm base was changed for large number 888 - is it intentional? The administration costs needed lowering but this high logartihm base almost removes any cost increase with growing empire. I personally was just adjusting the modifier to be below 100% with all regions captured and it worked quite well(mainly by changing multipler to something like -3).


    As for now I see only one problem but quite disturbing. I don't like how cavalry changed and it's effectiveness on infantry. Generally with fixed stats and only morale change there should be much more focus on HOW you use your army, not WHAT you use, which is very desireable. Heavy cavalry now can easily break any square of standard line infantry(even more than one), while it gets repelled by grenadiers. This would not necessary be a con but cav is winning those fights in extended meele, which looks strange when it slowly kills prepared in square formation infantry. I liked the most the cav performance when almost all attack was transferred to charge stat, while keeping very high defence - this looked real, placing weight on initial imact and provided nice disambiguation between heavy, light cav and especially lancers, very strong on breaking any formations but vulnerable(except winged hussars probably which is actually also realistic due to their special features). In general I would suggest leaving infantry just as their are, but working solely on cav statistics to get rid of strange prolonged meele fights with formed squares resulting in square break.

  7. #1347

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Thanks for feedback guys, ill see what can i do.

  8. #1348

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Jam. I have a question I really enjoy this mod battles are a lot longer and I think fun to play. I come back to this mod from time to time because it's one of my favorite time periods. Question is how come Austria never invades Italy and try to take Lombardy or naples. I like to play Austria I go straight to Italy first how come AI never invades Italy when I play spain or any other faction. I have a couple of suggestions can you make it were you can recruit militias off the bat and change experience it seems like it takes units forever to gain experience even after fighting 5 or 6 battles. Great mod jam my favorite one for empire great work.

  9. #1349

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    I have a question concerning compatible mods. Is (Vadants
    disease mod) compatible with Empire Realism mod Here is the link to the mod :

  10. #1350

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    seems Disease mod is composed of scripts, therefore should be most likely compatible.

    and regarding Austria - Its extremely hard to do AI behavior changes in terms of expansion. Austria has way too many potentional targets elsewhere, so they will prioritize them instead of Italy
    Last edited by JaM; December 23, 2018 at 08:36 PM.

  11. #1351

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    I have read some of the previous comments criticizing certain aspects of the mod but in my opinion this current build seems finished and complete. Only thing that I would add are all factions playable and additional units. And that is it. What do you say JaM about the idea of implementing more units and making all factions playable?

  12. #1352

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    i'd say never say never

  13. #1353

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Hello, and I have a question concerning the gameplay of this mod. Particularly the united states faction roster, it seems that I am unable to recruit line infantry for the U.S. Why is that. If it a matter of historical gameplay then I would like to know why.

  14. #1354

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by JaM View Post
    i'd say never say never
    I am hoping you would do it in the end. Thanks for the reply.

  15. #1355

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by OreoMan32 View Post
    Hello, and I have a question concerning the gameplay of this mod. Particularly the united states faction roster, it seems that I am unable to recruit line infantry for the U.S. Why is that. If it a matter of historical gameplay then I would like to know why.
    which campaign are you playing? Line infantry should be available, if it isnt, then its a bug

  16. #1356

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Not just for campaigns, but also for the quick battle roster. There is no American line infantry.

    I would also like to know if empire realism improves the AI

  17. #1357

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    Sorry forget my other question,

    i would like to know if this mod improves the BAI because the BAi in my experience is just like regular ETW BAI

  18. #1358

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    There are indirect adjustments to BAI in Empire Realism, as BAI is practically hardcoded and cannot be changed. Instead, after years of experience with ETW engine, and its behaviors, i tried to accommodate for most problematic BAI routines - for example - there is a script, where AI cavalry will instantly charge player's artillery when you aim your guns at them - while its not possible to remove that script directly, instead I made all artillery capable to "fire while hidden" which effectively cancels that script even if artillery is visible..

  19. #1359

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    is there any mods to help improve the BAI that are compatible with this mod

  20. #1360

    Default Re: Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

    again - no mod out there, no matter what author claims can do any changes to BAI... its not possible its hardcoded.. only changes possible are indirect, and ER is full of such changes.

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