Empire Realism - Feedback and General Discussion

[ReneTS]

I can see you replaced the upper class with a middle class, but if I have a minister who gives a bonus to the higher class happiness, will this then be applied to the middle class instead? Or is it just lost this bonus? Also as Poland both classes are listed as middle class. Is this just a naming error?

[JaM]

its just a naming error im unable to fix. in vanilla game, constitutional monarchy always had middle class as its lower class, which doesnt make sense. Instead, i gave all governments same setup

[Sar1n]

its just a naming error im unable to fix. in vanilla game, constitutional monarchy always had middle class as its lower class, which doesnt make sense. Instead, i gave all governments same setup

That's not bug, but mechanics. Three classes in ETW, and every government has only two active. Absolute Monarchy has upper and lower, CM has upper and middle, Republic has middle and lower. Each class is different in how it's affected by government traits, clamour for reform (I think), etc...and it's supposed to be additional balancing measure to offset the other differences in governments...

[JaM]

bug in terms of Constitutional Monarchy having both classes middle... Thing is, there should be three classes for every government, not just two.. it makes no sense to not have any of those whatever government you have

[Sar1n]

Well...I'm not sure what changes exactly have been made to the political system, but they seem to be quite problematic. I've started a campaign on VH/VH as Britain, and government approval goes down like a stone no matter what I do. Could be related to that.

The way classes are set up in vanilla are important for revolution mechanics. If you altered it, it might not be possible to revolt into desired government.

[JaM]

no its not. Government approval is based on taxation and traits of people in the government. Plus there is a penalty for being defeated in battles or losing regions.

[Sar1n]

That's the thing. I put taxes in all regions on lowest for lower class, low on upper, took the unpopular people gradually out of government, hit pirates ASAP, did not lose any battle or region, even was at total peace for a while...lost both elections so far.

Odd thing there is, the marker shows that popular opinion is improving, yet the % is lower every turn. As if there was a flat penalty applied each turn without UI registering it, on such scale that it's impossible to counteract.

[Goutlard]

Hello,
As I prepare to cease working on the Ottoman : Total Overhaul mod I started making a thread with all the research and knowledge I have amassed, hoping that it can be helpful to other modders.
I hope it may interest you. I have mostly finished the first part, but there's still much I will write, and I hope the community will also contribute.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...8#post15578908

[Aelius28]

Hey, is there a place I can go to see a summary of the changes this mod makes overall rather than just in 5.0?

For some reason the sticky threads seem to mostly pertain to the changes made in version 5.0, which isn't particularly useful for people just starting for the first time (we will need to know all the changes, not just those in the latest version.)

[JaM]

design changes thread describes all important stuff mod has

[Aelius28]

design changes thread describes all important stuff mod has

Hmm, I've read through the 5.0 design changes thread multiple times and I'm still not sure what exactly cohesion and disorder are. The descriptions given seem to assume the reader has prior knowledge of these systems from previous ER versions.

I was wondering if you could clarify how cohesion and disorder work, or point me to a post that explains it?

[Mjarr]

Hmm, I've read through the 5.0 design changes thread multiple times and I'm still not sure what exactly cohesion and disorder are. The descriptions given seem to assume the reader has prior knowledge of these systems from previous ER versions.

I was wondering if you could clarify how cohesion and disorder work, or point me to a post that explains it?

Essentially it is unit's stamina. Instead of simulating physical, it simulates unit cohesion so "low stamina" = low cohesion. Units which are in good cohesion or maintain it better (whether it's due experience or traits) tend to be more effective, as the penalties for poor cohesion (or stamina) can be pretty drastic depending a bit on the unit. Cavalry for example, essentially has no charge if they have poor cohesion and\or disorganised (aka "out of stamina").

[Aelius28]

Essentially it is unit's stamina. Instead of simulating physical, it simulates unit cohesion so "low stamina" = low cohesion. Units which are in good cohesion or maintain it better (whether it's due experience or traits) tend to be more effective, as the penalties for poor cohesion (or stamina) can be pretty drastic depending a bit on the unit. Cavalry for example, essentially has no charge if they have poor cohesion and\or disorganised (aka "out of stamina").

Thanks.

And what about disorder?

[JaM]

disorder is worst cohesion level your unit can be in.. it makes it completely ineffective in combat and its better to withdraw such unit from fight. Cavalry quite often ends up in complete disorder if it gets in melee, which makes counter-charges with fresh cavalry very effective.. so instead of mass attack with multiple cavalry units, you should "layer" your attacks, and keep reserves..

[Aelius28]

Thanks for the help! A few more questions if that's okay I'm sorry for being such a bother, this is just a lot to absorb for a newcomer to the mod

1) The technology "Letter of Marque" eliminates upkeep cost for auxiliary ships. What are auxiliary ships?

2) Is there any point to the bayonet technologies after the first one? Specifically, Ring and Socket. There doesn't seem to be any bonus mentioned for them, and they come with 5% increase upkeep.

3) How do technologies that provide a percent increase in research rate work in terms of number rounding? e.g. If new research would take 8 turns and I have a technology that increases research rate by 5%, 8/1.05 = 7.62 turns. Obviously there aren't fractions of turns, so how does this work? Does it round? If so, does it also round down to the nearest turn, or only round up? Are tech research rate bonuses completely useless, then, if the rounding isn't enough to lower it by a whole number?

4) The middle class tax policy seems to have a bug or typo or something. It says there is both a decrease in town wealth growth and a decrease in town wealth. Obviously my town wealth is not decreasing by 12% every turn or I'd be bankrupt in a few years. So what exactly is going on? Here's a gif showing the tooltips.

5) What is the ideal range to open fire, as a proportion of maximum range (for line infantry)? e.g. Half the max range? Closer? I notice JaM has mentioned the range in meters but I don't know of any way to actually measure meters on the battlefield, nor do I know what the max range of line infantry is in meters.

6) In the design changes sticky thread, JaM says (with certain parts bolded by myself for emphasis):

Instead of using -100% accuracy penalties for disordered units, i have halved actual musket accuracy, and instead set all penalties to -50%. Main problem with previous version was that those penalties practically made skirmishers completely ineffective once their cohesion fall down, which they didn't care about in reality.. Instead, in new version, their accuracy will fall down to 50% of maximum, but due to having a lot more accurate weapons than line infantry, they will still be effective, and that 50% reduction can simulate actual smoke obscuring the area making targeting a bit tricky. But for Line infantry with their limited accuracy - average Line infantry with accuracy rating 25, using musket with -10 accuracy penalty, giving it effective accuracy 15, 50% reduction means a big impact to overall accuracy, especially at longer ranges.

Just to make sure I understand, is it saying that the worst cohesion/disorder level results in 50% less accuracy?

Also, what does it mean when it says "using musket with -10 accuracy penalty"? Where is the -10 accuracy penalty coming from?

[Mjarr]

Thanks for the help! A few more questions if that's okay I'm sorry for being such a bother, this is just a lot to absorb for a newcomer to the mod

1) The technology "Letter of Marque" eliminates upkeep cost for auxiliary ships. What are auxiliary ships?

IIRC anything that isn't x-rate or clearly noted as ship of the line, or ships with clear indication to privateering.

2) Is there any point to the bayonet technologies after the first one? Specifically, Ring and Socket. There doesn't seem to be any bonus mentioned for them, and they come with 5% increase upkeep.

Didn't they give minor increase in charge bonus and are necessary prerequisites for other techs?

3) How do technologies that provide a percent increase in research rate work in terms of number rounding? e.g. If new research would take 8 turns and I have a technology that increases research rate by 5%, 8/1.05 = 7.62 turns. Obviously there aren't fractions of turns, so how does this work? Does it round? If so, does it also round down to the nearest turn, or only round up? Are tech research rate bonuses completely useless, then, if the rounding isn't enough to lower it by a whole number?

Tech rate bonuses aren't useless but it doesn't scale linearly. How exactly it works, well I am not sure as I haven't done that much in-depth modding so I hope JaM got bit more insight on that.

(Well, other than I noticed anything beyond ~30% research rate bonus might as well not exist in Shogun and Warhammer)

5) What is the ideal range to open fire, as a proportion of maximum range (for line infantry)? e.g. Half the max range? Closer? I notice JaM has mentioned the range in meters but I don't know of any way to actually measure meters on the battlefield, nor do I know what the max range of line infantry is in meters.

Range is 1:3 scaled, so 50 in-game distance would be around simulated 150 metres. For musket fire, if you want to repel approaching cavalry opening fire at ~½ of max range or bit less (accounting minor delay after you toggle fire at will or give the order manually) is a decent guideline, and if you get close to low-cohesion infantry I would say anything less than 30 is a good starting point. Time is scaled 1:2 which applies for movement and reload rates and whatnot. While it may feel bit counterintuitive at first and visually may create some funny situations in map vs logic of the mod, it does enable manoeuvre as logical part of the battle rather than risk immediate hail of fire, as with realistic ranges you'd have (most) artillery pieces blasting pretty much right off the bat from far edge of the map.

Of course, you're still most likely going to run into situations where it's still as practical to just have two lines blasting at max-ish range and not advance for a while as casualties are pretty mild at long range unless it keeps dragging on and on and on.

6) In the design changes sticky thread, JaM says (with certain parts bolded by myself for emphasis):

Just to make sure I understand, is it saying that the worst cohesion/disorder level results in 50% less accuracy?

Also, what does it mean when it says "using musket with -10 accuracy penalty"? Where is the -10 accuracy penalty coming from?

It might be referring to the mod's own files and accuracy effects. You can assign natural accuracy penalty (or boost) to weapon projectile that is hidden in-game unfortunately, as the unit accuracy only shows how accurate the operators are (relative to game logic) as opposed to how accurate the weapon they use is.

Practically speaking -50% accuracy is still very notable debuff when combined with slowly accumulating misfires and so on.

[Aelius28]

Thanks

Range is 1:3 scaled, so 50 in-game distance would be around simulated 150 metres. For musket fire, if you want to repel approaching cavalry opening fire at ~½ of max range or bit less (accounting minor delay after you toggle fire at will or give the order manually) is a decent guideline, and if you get close to low-cohesion infantry I would say anything less than 30 is a good starting point.

But I'm confused about what is 50 in-game distance. Like, all I see is a red cone in front of my men, but no number.

Thanks again! Hopefully JaM can comment on some of the other points of confusion

[Mjarr]

But I'm confused about what is 50 in-game distance. Like, all I see is a red cone in front of my men, but no number.

If you use right mouse button to check the unit informations in detail, it informs maximum range said unit. You have to use that as a reference to deduce it exactly, but once you have a rough idea what is ~50 in-game range it shouldn't be too difficult to make an educated guess how much is around ~30 as well. Unfortunately I don't think there's any easier option around it.

[ibinado13]

Is there a way to bring back Regions-trade to diplomacy options ? Or why exactly was it removed? Thanks

[JaM]

it was removed to prevent AI from selling home regions to Native Americans for example... nothing is more immersion breaking than finding Maratha on Bahamas or Iroquois in India