Almost but where are the Musicians!

**Kinjo** · February 25, 2013, 05:18 AM

I really like what I am seeing with the unit commands but where are the cornicines (musicians) they were important? I know things are still a bit early but its a legitimate question. I never fully understood why CA has piecemealed us unit commands throughout the series with the exception of ETW and even that was spotty when it came to cavalry units. Unit commands should be fairly straight forward for this period Officer, Standard-bearer, and Musician. In this period the cornicen was extremely important and would always be next to the centurion to signal orders to the legions.

It would be pretty cool to issue an order to a unit and see the centurion bark out the order followed by a signal from the cornicen. We are ready for this CA! Also I noticed there was an eagle standard in the background of this screen shot, I imagine it's probably the first cohort but they should a have signifer as well. Deck these units out with unit commands CA it only makes them look better, could you imagine the 1st cohort with the following unit command Officer, Eagle Standard-bearer, Signifer Standard-bearer, and Cornicen! and give cavalry units some lovin too they deserve full unit commands as well and it's historical see trajans column.

Rome 2 alpha unit command

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Roman 1st Cohort Unit Commands with a Cornicen

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Centurion giving orders and the Cornicen signaling

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Cornicines on Trajan's column

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Roman Cavalry Unit Command Officer, Standard, and Musician

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Augustus Scipius** · February 25, 2013, 05:39 AM

I am sure they will be included in the cohorts. They were more important than say the imaginifer. However I doubt we will see all special units in a cohort, including signifer, cornicen, vexillarius, imaginifer, centurio, tesserarius and two optios. Otherwise there would be too many non-combat/officer units and they would have to code all of them in their respective positions in a cohort, as much as I would like that.

**~~weirdoascensor~~** · February 25, 2013, 05:46 AM

Yeah, Musicians are missing from TW since Shogun 2...Unlike ETW and NTW before it with their Drummers and Flutist, It does not have Horagai Blowers and Taiko Beaters...

Musicians better be back in Rome 2...

**Kinjo** · February 25, 2013, 05:58 AM

Hell NTW had Flutist, Drummers, Standard-bearers, and Officers don't really think I'm going too far out on a limb here. Just keep it simple Standard-bearer, Officer, and Musician for both cavalry and infantry units with some exceptions like 1st cohorts would have an additional Eagle Standard-bearer. We also have to remember the 1st will be larger (most likely) than regular units so the extra standard really isn't that big of a deal. As for unit commands being non combatants that's not true they have always had fighting animation since the original RTW so that's not an issue.

NTW unit command
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03_GeryojSI

Then there is this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...5nbhFVI#t=120s

**Augustus Scipius** · February 25, 2013, 06:08 AM

I didn't mean all officers would be classified as non-combatants. Tesserarius and centurio fought on the front lines. However, optios were stationed at the back of a cohort so were Signiferi, who had to carry large standards and therefore couldn't have fought in a very efficient manner.

What I meant was that we can probably get one or two standard bearers, one musician and one officer, but not all possible specialists. My point is irrelevant anyway.

**Kinjo** · February 25, 2013, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by weirdoascensor

Musicians better be back in Rome 2...

I agree and it's Jack Lusted's fault if it doesn't happen, there are more to units then just guys with weapons!

Originally Posted by Augustus Scipius

What I meant was that we can probably get one or two standard bearers, one musician and one officer, but not all possible specialists. My point is irrelevant anyway.

That's all I was talking about if CA is going to do an Officer and Standard-bearer they might as well do the Musician why they are at it seems kind of pointless not too.

**Sharpe** · February 25, 2013, 06:04 PM

Lets not point any fingers......yet.

**CDR Hurricane** · February 25, 2013, 06:20 PM

No pointing fingers? I'll point a hoof instead.

**Kinjo** · February 25, 2013, 06:29 PM

Oh well maybe we will get an awesome excuse why thy think musicians are not necessary for game play purposes.

**Cathal** · February 25, 2013, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Kinjo

Oh well maybe we will get an awesome excuse why thy think musicians are not necessary for game play purposes.

Because they aren't....

**torongill** · February 26, 2013, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by Cathal

Because they aren't....

Maybe not for strictly gameplay purposes, but then again you hardly need flag bearers, officers or the small flags attached to the back of each warrior in Shogun 2 or the giant bales of cotton on the backs of the General bodyguard.

**Kinjo** · February 26, 2013, 04:26 AM

Table top war gaming has been getting this right for 30+ years. What's so hard about the concept of a unit command being an Officer, Standard-bearer, and a Musician. Besides units with unit commands look so much better than units without them, I'm not trying to be an ass but holy crap unit commands have been so sporadic throughout the TW series. ETW and NTW were the best so far when it comes to unit commands, the only thing they were missing were cavalry standard-bearers.

Some Hail Caesar table top commands

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**TR00PER7** · February 26, 2013, 06:04 AM

I quite liked the music people from empire and napoleon, and it would be cool to see it for the Romans or any other unit which had them.

**Augustus Scipius** · February 26, 2013, 12:29 PM

But now that I think of it, I suppose we don't know many remaining marching songs from the antiquity. I mean sure we know what kinds of instruments they used to play, for example the Greeks had the aulos-flute, but I am not sure how many different marching song notes actually remain. And then there are the rather poorly documented barbarian tribes. I for one have never heard of (no pun intended), for example the musical instruments of the suebi.

Even the Romans usually only used musical instruments for signaling instead of playing them in order to uphold the morale of the troops. Your idea is awesome and I fully support it. However, I fear that this is the same case as with the authentic languages. We may know too little to effectively include them.

**Kinjo** · February 26, 2013, 10:55 PM

Well in battle they would only be used for signalling which should be pretty easy to do, for example you click on a unit to advance or charge and the officer in the unit would give the order then you would hear the musician blowing a horn nothing too crazy.

This is not the best example but it's something:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBRCS...ature=youtu.be