Spring and Autumn of the Sixteen Kingdoms - 4th century mod project

[Col. Tartleton]

Just remember to fix the writing in the top right corner. It'll be weird in game if you can read the terrain literally.

[Yayattasa]

As I said:

... I kept the website at the upper right corner because it really deserves it's credits!

But I'll remember

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I'm working on the map_features right now. I'm really not sure if I should include navigable rivers. I know several rivers were heavily used in the period (and demarked the northern borders for the Jin) but they also seem to create some unintended side-effects.
What you think about the issue?

[Col. Tartleton]

I'd imagine that navigable rivers are usually a good thing as long as they are passable. Neutral ships should be able to pass each other and hostiles should be able to block each other and fight. I feel like China's shipping was as much riverine as oceanic.

[Yayattasa]

I'm still struggling to make the campaign map work haha

[Yayattasa]

So, the Jin were supposed to wear white (thanks to the five phases, a common factor in chinese cosmology), but historical sources also cite them being inclined to red.

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I'm also already collecting names for government offices (which will either be represented as traits or retinues).

[Yayattasa]

In case anyone is watching this thread

02/07/13

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Some REAL development at last!
This will be the shield used by chinese sword infantry:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is a bit of artistic license: these shield are represented in engravings only, as no remains have ever been found, they are supposedly wooden. The painting are also suppositions (the last one actually reads shield (Dùn 盾))

I already added a longer version (which was going to be the only version, but I liked the looks of the shorter one displayed in the picture).

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Finally got the campaign map to load (albeit with some graphical glitches)!!
Now I need to revise the whole height map (will probably just redo it from the pictures) and add the ground types, regions, etc...

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04/07/13
This will be the crossbow used by the south and southwest peoples:
[SPOILER]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This one is a long version. There is also a shorter version avaiable. It's from the Yunnan province and is commonly used (with poisoned arrows) in hunting activities.

[Yayattasa]

http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/ind...2#entry4801638
These posts relate some strategies of the Eastern Jin. The one being discussed at the start of the page is the hammered-spear tactic (stakes hammered into the ground maybe?)

This topic also supports the Ji (halberd) usage during the Age of Fragmentation and the rhino leather rattan armor usage by the Di tribesmen.

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http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/ind...trinestrategy/
This quote emphatizes the military doctrines during the Warring States:

The development of military strategic thinking went hand in hand with the development of various philosophical schools that became establish in the same era.

The Confucian school (儒家) emphasised Humaneness and Righteousness to be an integral part of the military/war - paying attention to the basics such as adequate supplies, adequate manpower and adequate training.

The Mohist (墨家) advocated refraining from burdening the people so that they would be strong, placing a high value on arms development and military engineering as vitals tools.

The Legalists (法家) apart from acknowleding the importance of basics such as agriculture, also stressed greatly on utility of power, and the system of rewards and punishments.

The Daoists (道家) contribution to military thought was in challenging the thinking beyond traditional understanding of bravery, strength and advancing, introducing the concept of flexibility of methods to achieve the goals such as "Inspiring Valour Through Compassion", "Overcoming Hardness Through Softness", and "Retreat to Advance" (“慈故能勇”、“柔弱胜刚强”、“进道若退”).

[BroskiDerpman]

Nice mod you got here. Can't wait to play what ever faction is around modern day Hubei, Hunan, or XingJiang.


If I was to classify myself from that list (2 only) I would lean towards Confucian and Daoist, but in the end balance is the key.

[Yayattasa]

Hunan and Hubei were always owned by the Eastern Jin.
Xinjiang on the other hand was called the Western Regions (西域 Xīyù), a semi-authonomous region. It was controlled, in chronological order, by the Former Liang, Former Qin, Later Liang and Western Liang empires.
I must say I always liked the idea of playing any of those empires just to control Xinjiang (because it maintained such a cultural exchange that it made it way more diverse than the nomads to the east or the han to the southeast).
As I said in previous posts, here you have several settled and passing peoples. Controlling Xinjiang, you control the Silk Road and the Indo-European trade/cultural influx into eastern Asia.

[BroskiDerpman]

Wow, just by doing an quick wiki search it seems like the Jin is the only "stable" dynasty for quite a while then hit the fan.
Liang seems interested just because I want to take over Xingjiang.

EXTRA: Do you know of any shield that is known (i.e not the one just previewed) to be used by Han Chinese foot soldiers? (The ethnic group, includes all those dynasties)

[Yayattasa]

I know of two kinds of 'tower' shields used by the spearmen (an oval one and one resembling an elongated pentagon, larger at the base).

The curved 'hexagon' shield previewed was always associated with swordsmen.

The cavalry, as it seems, did not use shields.

Bamboo and animal hide shields are not unheard of.

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I've found reference of a form of rectangular large shield being used both by sinicized peoples and turkish peoples alike in the era. Doesn't look like much of a stretch to include it...

[Yayattasa]

12/07/13

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As I promised earlier, here is it:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I'm still sorting the colours and the curvatures/scale of the shields.
Also, I already know the next models on my list: probably a chinese crossbow, an oval shield and another tower shield design, then I may start to model the melee weapons.

[Yayattasa]

Long time since my last post haha
I still need to finish the campaign map, and there's still a lot of work to be done.

On the brighter side, De Bello Mundi team allowed the use of their models in other mods, so, as they have several well made Han and Xiongnu units covered, I will probably end using them.

[Seba14]

Awesome ! I myself am working on a "Twcenter enhanced Hanzhishang Mod", and learnt lot of stuffs, such as scripting...let me know if I can be of help

[PikeStance]

This is a little different question... I am little confused by the choice of name... Spring and Autumn. The Spring and Autumn period is from 722- 476 BCE based on the annals of the same name.

[Yayattasa]

After reading a bit more about the period, I liked the sounding of:

十六國春秋
Spring and Autumn of the Sixteen Kingdoms

A history detailing the Wǔhú luànhuá, compiled by Cui Hong in the 5th century. So, for now, I'm adopting the second option.

It's from a book about the period

[liaotongquans]

I want play this mod on first February

[PikeStance]

It's from a book about the period

Interesting it was given the same name of the Ten Kingdom annals.
Here is the wiki link: Spring and Autumn of the Sixteen Kingdoms
It shares a similar name with two others
Spring and Autumn Annals (Fall of the Zhou Dynasty)
Spring and Autumn of the Ten Kingdoms (Southern China following the fall of Tang Dynasty)

[Yayattasa]

Actually most sinicized chinese dynasties were supposed to have a Spring and Autumn Annals about it, but several were lost with the passing centuries.

[vladimirt]

ah I are doing mod three kingdom korean from warring states. information mod: http://bbsvn.comule.com/forum.php?mo...display&fid=38
will have a time long to do it