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    Nihil's Avatar Annihilationist
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    Default An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    An-Nihil-ation of Religion (A Riddle)

    Prologue


    I don't often read the ethos, because the debates here seem to consist mostly of heated arguments about religion. I am very interested in philosophy, and in my opinion there is nothing more detrimental to philosophy than religious dogma. It was the intellectual limitations imposed by religious prejudices that ruined Descartes Meditations, for example. The last thing people who like religion want is to think freely and reflect upon open-ended questions, which is what philosophy – the love of truth – is all about. In the age of the free market, the cultural and intellectual lowest common denominator is ruler of all. This applies not only to the arts and media, but to schools of thought also.

    Most people would get pretty angry if they subscribed to a religion, only to find that it did not fulfil the following criteria:

    1)A popular religion, like a successful politician, must confirm the prejudices and pander to the preconceived mindset of its subscribers / customers / followers / supporters.

    2)To be a successful product in today's competitive marketplace, a religion (not unlike a newspaper, or a television news service) must tell its customers that they are always right, and that everybody else is wrong (with all the implications that follow regarding hell, damnation, paradise, and all of that infantile rubbish).

    3)Just as a platinum-selling pop icon or a blockbuster movie must under no circumstances presume to challenge or disturb the mental slothfulness to which its listener or viewer is accustomed by asking him to think, so it is with a skilfully marketed religion.

    So, as we can see, a religion is a product like any other, and in order to prosper it must adhere to the principles of supply and demand and the lowest common denominator.

    However, last night I was in the mood to read some posts and the other forums were slow, so I had a look around the ethos. Sure enough, we had the usual bitter and embarrassing disputes over who's god is better. Hardly the kind of fare I find stimulating, but for some reason I persevered.

    And then, I had an idea.

    Epilogue

    It seems to me that the disorder and the conflict in the ethos reflects the mental disorder of the forum occupants. There is much confusion here. So, I have decided to write for you all a post which will answer all your questions, resolve all the conflicts, and allow peace to reign. Naturally, this is the last thing any of you want. What you all want is to shout and fight and get fired up about being right while everybody else is wrong. This post would ruin all your fun, so you'll probably want to ignore it.

    However, before you do ignore it completely and return to your threads about fire and brimstone and arguments over who's going to hell and who isn't, I invite you to read it to the end and ask yourself whether or not there is some sense in what I have to say. While you were reading this riddle, nobody shouted at you and told you that you were going to hell. While you were reading this riddle, you forgot about gods (until I mentioned them just now). While you were reading this riddle, you used the time you might have spent writing hate-posts and getting all worked up and emotional reading this riddle instead. Just for a split second, somewhere along the way, all of that stuff was forgotten, and you didn't know what was going to happen next.

    They say the devil finds work for idle hands. Maybe that's just if god doesn't get there first.

    If there was no idleness, gods and devils alike would soon die out.

    You're probably feeling a bit angry now. But I promised to write for you all a post which would answer all your questions, resolve all the conflicts, and allow peace to reign –but I didn't say for how long.

    Thanks for reading this. We now return you to your regular scheduled forum.
    Ex Nihilo, Nihil Fit.
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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    Beautiful ...
    "Tempus edax rerum." Ovid, Metamorphoses
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    Tostig's Avatar -
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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    I'm sorry, your post didn't fit into my preconceived and prejudiced world view, therefore I am mentally categorising it as having some kind of malevolent bias and subsequently ignoring it.

    :sign0190: Good post.
    Garbarsardar has been a dapper chap.

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    boofhead's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    Clever.

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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    but Nihil, sir, do you (speaking of the negative influence posed by the religion on the philosophy) admit that religion differs greatly from FAITH. I for instance do not concider myself a part of catholic church, though officially I am catholic. actually I do not concider myself a part of ANY modern or ancient religion. I BELIEVE there is some sort of power, call it Alah, Buda, Jesus, God, or 'meat popsicle' if you like. I think too that religion is of no good to those with potential for philosophising... Religion is RULES, religion is TRADITIONS, religion is RESTRICTIONS, while FAITH is only what you and everyone else believs in... (actually this phrase puts even atheist under FAITH, you see they believe that there is no god and no deity )

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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    An explicit athiest might believe that there is no God, however an implicit athiest merely does not believe in a God. There is a subtle but important difference.

    If you were going to say "everyone makes assumptions" then you would be far better off doing so from the position espoused by Berkely; that we are certain that a thinking thing exists, and of what we are experiencing. We assume everything else - for instance causation and the existance of other minds and so on. However where athiest diverges from theism is that it applies Ockham's razor, and theorises that that which needs the least assumptions is right, until it is logically or empirically proved wrong.

    However how do you base morality, religion, society and so on on what must be the choice of the individual?

    What of agnostics, do they have any faith?

    Back to the religious bickering...
    Last edited by Tostig; August 17, 2006 at 08:19 AM.
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    Nihil's Avatar Annihilationist
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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    Quote Originally Posted by Giurza
    but Nihil, sir, do you (speaking of the negative influence posed by the religion on the philosophy) admit that religion differs greatly from FAITH. I for instance do not concider myself a part of catholic church, though officially I am catholic. actually I do not concider myself a part of ANY modern or ancient religion. I BELIEVE there is some sort of power, call it Alah, Buda, Jesus, God, or 'meat popsicle' if you like. I think too that religion is of no good to those with potential for philosophising... Religion is RULES, religion is TRADITIONS, religion is RESTRICTIONS, while FAITH is only what you and everyone else believs in... (actually this phrase puts even atheist under FAITH, you see they believe that there is no god and no deity )
    Yeah, I can groove with that. Meat popsicle sounds like a good deity, although a little bit sexually explicit perhaps. My girlfriend likes to worship the meat popsicle. :love0030: :sign_omg:
    Ex Nihilo, Nihil Fit.
    Acting Paterfamilias of House Rububula
    Former Patron of the retired Atheist Peace
    Current Lineup: Jesus The Inane, PacSubCom, Last Roman, Evariste, I Have a Clever Name, Gabriella26, Markas and Katrina

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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    but by making assumptions you tend (most people do) to believe in what you are assuming. of course ther will be a majority of agnostics and atheists saying that they don't believe, that they assume, but this all is going down to the matter of term 'believe'
    i.e. how do you describe believing... is it that this is something you are most convinced over, or something you assume, or maybe somthing you think... a very difficult discussion, and actually I feel as if i should step down and let my collegue Tostig take over here, since he is English and have a definitive advantage of language. the argumentation I may present will never be THAT highly qualified as the one presented by herr Tostig... so this is here where I must resign from further discussion...
    with hurting heart I do this though, since I love philosophy, and even more, discussions!

  9. #9
    Biarchus
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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    It's not religion in general that is anti-philosophy, but certain groups within religions. For example, look at the Jesuits. Just because they believe in God does not prevent them from living philosophical lives and leading philosophical discussion. Their motto, their philosophy, essentially their way of life centers around serving others and improving the human condition in this world. The four pillars of Jesuit life are self-awareness, ingenuity, love and heroism. When these are all interwoven together, the Jesuits become an extremely flexible force for good in this world. For a long time, they were the oasis of people that embraced change amidst all the traditionalists inside the Catholic Church. But they do show that organized religion isn't always a detriment to philosophical progress.

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    Pra's Avatar Sir Lucious Left Foot
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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Nihil again.


    Brilliant. I'm reminded of how, if we had good ideas on how to live rather than stringent, and perhaps, non-applicable beliefs, we might all be happier.
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    MoROmeTe's Avatar For my name is Legion
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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    Artist fromerly known as Prarara you are basically saying that we must abandon the quest for higher and nobler ideas that can transform the world and all become just pragmatic enginners of the present moment? If it is like this I cannot agree with you...

    But if you are saying that we must seek to root out the sources of ideas that claim to be true and eternal and impossible to challenge, of which one are the various religions, and try and see all in the light of change and relativity while trying to make our stay in the world more meaningfull and pleasant then I totally agree...

    A subtle difference yet one that seems to me crucially important...


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    Pra's Avatar Sir Lucious Left Foot
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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    Quote Originally Posted by MoROmeTe
    Artist fromerly known as Prarara you are basically saying that we must abandon the quest for higher and nobler ideas that can transform the world and all become just pragmatic enginners of the present moment? If it is like this I cannot agree with you...

    But if you are saying that we must seek to root out the sources of ideas that claim to be true and eternal and impossible to challenge, of which one are the various religions, and try and see all in the light of change and relativity while trying to make our stay in the world more meaningfull and pleasant then I totally agree...

    A subtle difference yet one that seems to me crucially important...

    I believe there might be a slight misunderstanding with what I said, and what you have said and what I understood from it, perhaps. We should all pursue our ideas, if that makes us happy, but we shouldn't, for the lack of a better term, be 'married' to these ideas to the point that it leads to the harm of ourselves or others-not a matter of faith, but of pragmatism.

    I hope that made sense.
    Last edited by Pra; August 18, 2006 at 10:24 AM.
    Under patronage of Emperor Dimitricus Patron of vikrant1986, ErikinWest, VOP2288


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  13. #13

    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chandrashekar Azad
    I believe there might be a slight misunderstanding, with what I said, and what you have said and what I comprehend from it, perhaps. We should all pursue our ideas, if that makes us happy, but we shouldn't, for the lack of a better term, be 'married' to these ideas to the point that it leads to the harm of ourselves or others-not a matter of faith, but of pragmatism.

    I hope that made sense.
    actually to the point where our believes harm our ability to analyse things, to look at the perspective... when this happens, THEN our believes are harmful, and then ppl tend to become fanatical and self righteous

  14. #14
    Zacheria's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: An-Nihil-ation of Religion (a Riddle)

    Religion does pose a great number of problems to humanity, while supplying us with easy answers to our worries of death and what happens after. Philosiphy on the other hand provides us with deeper questions to which we will never have an answer too, many ideas, but no true answers. To tell you the truth I dont know which one makes me more fustrated. The ignorance and denial some people live in or the utter chaos that goes along with wanting to find truths but only discovering more questions.

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