[FotS] Campaign AI throws away reason for challenge?

[Kolaris8472]

After being initially impressed by FotS, I've come to sense a pattern developing (Normal Difficulty).

Whichever side the player isn't on is completely united. Whichever side the player is on succumbs to infighting.

Choshu Campaign = Southern Imperalists infighting, numerous betrayals, Shogunists march south completely united
Satsuma Campaign = Tatsuo and Tosa switch sides, Shogunists march south completely united. At Realm Divide I am the only Imperial clan left.

Thinking maybe this is just an Imperial problem, I decide to switch to a Shogunist Campaign

Nakoaka Campaign = Shogunist infighting, the two northernmost clans switch sides for absolutely no reason, Satsuma and Saga send naval invasion forces north to Shogun territory (!!!!!)

What really pisses me off is this: if a clan is on my side of the war but has no one to fight, they'll attack whoever they want (usually me). If the clan is on the other side of the war and has no one to fight, they'll send a freaking naval invasion fleet halfway across Japan to support their side of the war effort.

This is completely bogus. AI clans are quite persistent in challenging the player, but give not a second thought to the nation wide war going on and their loyalties in it. When will devs learn that a challenging AI is built on top of a realistic one, not at at its expense?

/rant, off to find mods to fix the problem

[arun]

I am not a great of these artificial challenges either. It makes absolutely no sense for one province heroes, who happened to be my allies and vassals, to betray me. I mean, alliance, vassalage, military access - are all these things for the consideration of the player only? Not that I mind - it means that I get to take over good provinces without having to declare war myself.

But do consider this - would you like it if instead of this system of challenge, would you like it if the AI acted more like a human? Do you realize how much trouble it could cause you with a few agents - assassinating your high ranked generals, provoking rebellions etc. To be honest, I don't know which challenge I would like better.

[Father Ribs]

They still have their goals, but you do seem to have more "weight" as an opponent than the other AIs. As an experiment I settled and locked down both the far east and far west islands and stayed off the mainland, turtled up and just watched the AI...right up to RD, they will jockey and war with each other even in their own faction right to the end.

[weirdoascensor]

The Trick Is - Keep Tabs on The Diplomacy.

First, check The Temperament of Your Neighbors' leadership. Only remotely trust ''Defensive'' and ''Trustworthy'' ones.
Second, always check Your Neighbors' Borders: Do they have any Rivals/Enemies/Clan with differing Allegiance? In short, Potential Victims of Their Expansion?
Third, Always make sure Neighboring Clans are Busy Fighting Someone.

-Never encircle an Ally.
-Always give Neighbors room to Expand.
-Give Trusted Neighbors Passage.
-If Your Ally are surrounded by Allies, Invite them to declare War against some Far-away Enemy, which one doesn't matter.
-Make Buffer Zones.

[Kolaris8472]

The Trick Is - Keep Tabs on The Diplomacy.

First, check The Temperament of Your Neighbors' leadership. Only remotely trust ''Defensive'' and ''Trustworthy'' ones.
Second, always check Your Neighbors' Borders: Do they have any Rivals/Enemies/Clan with differing Allegiance? In short, Potential Victims of Their Expansion?
Third, Always make sure Neighboring Clans are Busy Fighting Someone.

-Never encircle an Ally.
-Always give Neighbors room to Expand.
-Give Trusted Neighbors Passage.
-If Your Ally are surrounded by Allies, Invite them to declare War against some Far-away Enemy, which one doesn't matter.
-Make Buffer Zones.

Those are excellent tips for dealing with this player-partial AI, but my problem is that it's designed to target the player to begin with.

It trivializes the Boshin War when the AI is more concerned with dethroning the player than the Shogun/Emperor.

What the Satsuma and Saga did in my Nakaoka campaign is exactly what I'd expected from the start, AI clans concerned with the overall war effort. They weren't even at war with me until the turn their armies landed, so they were identifying Shogunists (or me) as the highest priority target even without being at war yet. They didn't have anywhere to expand, so they sent troops to Shogun territory. But obviously if the AI is anywhere near the player, even of the same loyalty, they'll never consider that. They'll just declare war on me.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Those are excellent tips for dealing with this player-partial AI, but my problem is that it's designed to target the player to begin with.

It trivializes the Boshin War when the AI is more concerned with dethroning the player than the Shogun/Emperor.

What the Satsuma and Saga did in my Nakaoka campaign is exactly what I'd expected from the start, AI clans concerned with the overall war effort. They weren't even at war with me until the turn their armies landed, so they were identifying Shogunists (or me) as the highest priority target even without being at war yet. They didn't have anywhere to expand, so they sent troops to Shogun territory. But obviously if the AI is anywhere near the player, even of the same loyalty, they'll never consider that. They'll just declare war on me.

Don't blame the game for your lack of experience with diplomacy and AI behavior. I have no problem om Legendary following just some of the basic stuff that weirdaccesoar is listing. Once it hits RD and you become vanguard you can expect some ganging up on you, otherwise it just the AI doing his thing. If the AI feels like you are their best bet for expansion you are gonna get it.

[RandarKal]

I have never had such a problem...mostly because i use diplomacy excessively in the start, picking clans that are not immediately near eachother as allies often results in them forming an alliance block with you, attacking the nearest faction of the opposite allegiance will typically keep them from attacking eachother, and instead focus on naval assaults, or marching through your territory to continue that campaign.

Simply put, in my FotS campaigns, i can typically form a strong Shogunate/Imperial block that will usually be stronger then my rival block long before RD comes up...with perhaps one unfortunate faction that got attacked by a faction in my block before i could add them.

[Kolaris8472]

Set CDIR_DESIRE_BOOST_PLAYER_RIVALS and CDIR_DESIRE_BOOST_PLAYER_RIVALS_AT_WAR to 0 and so far the AI is behaving far more rationally when it comes to Shogun vs Emperor vs Player

[Xyloto]

The diplomacy AI is still broken in shogun 2. The battle AI is improved. I hope they are going to improve it for rome 2.