Armoured Frigate vs Ironclad

**arun** · February 20, 2013, 01:28 AM

The armoured frigate costs more than the ironclad, takes 1 extra turn to build. It has less range and hull strength than the ironclad. So why should I build them? Is it just better to build the ironclads and support them with armoured corvettes? The AI is costing me at least 5-7k each turn in ship and port repairs, and I really need to put an end to the AI's fleet.

Also, how does naval XP work? If you lose your men/cannons, do they lose XP? Or with hull damage?

The autoresolve is messed up even on Normal, and it ends up destroying my Ronoake ironclad very frequently. The autoresolve works great for land battles, perhaps even too well.

**arun** · February 20, 2013, 11:25 PM

No one has any experience with Frigates and Iroclads both? I am mostly building Ironclads supported by corvettes, and I have Explosive Shells now, so the AI is toast. Am I missing something by not building Frigates? BTW, I have no interest in capturing the AI ships as they are usually wooden or copper plate hulled.

**Sean951** · February 21, 2013, 02:45 AM

I use armored since there are only so many ironclads you can build, and they have more guns. I assume that means a more powerful bombardment, but I don't know.

**DarkArk** · February 21, 2013, 04:37 AM

Well for the foreign ships you only get a limited number of them. The Kotetsu is a close range ship, and doesn't have much in the way of cannon. The larger frigates however have a lot of cannon, though are more fragile.

**DeliCiousTZM** · February 21, 2013, 07:49 AM

Well, Cruzz knows all about this sort of things. It would appear that the American ironclad are the strongest and most cost efficient. It has the strongest cannons with the best accuracy with the furthest range.
So screw warrior and L'ocean. Just get Kotesu.

The "Roanoke"(edit not kotetsu)Ironclad has 4 times the damage per shell that a frigate has.

Follow me and Cruzz as we shamefurly conquer Japan here

**~~weirdoascensor~~** · February 21, 2013, 09:40 AM

Simply since Frigates are The Next Best Thing...
I Like to see Armored Kaiyo Maru as "Mini-Warriors" since They Have 24 Medium Guns.

Originally Posted by DarkArk

Well for the foreign ships you only get a limited number of them. The Kotetsu is a close range ship, and doesn't have much in the way of cannon. The larger frigates however have a lot of cannon, though are more fragile.

Incorrect
Kotetsu Class maybe has Gatling Guns and Ramming ability, But Its Most Important asset are Single Forward-Facing 300pdr Armstrong Rifle, The Most Powerful Gun on The Seas, with the Longest Reach.
Use Them as Snipers. Shoot, Then Reverse, Luring The Enemy into Your Other Ships Broadsides.

**DeliCiousTZM** · February 21, 2013, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by weirdoascensor

Simply since Frigates are The Next Best Thing...
I Like to see Armored Kaiyo Maru as "Mini-Warriors" since They Have 24 Medium Guns.

Incorrect
Kotetsu Class maybe has Gatling Guns and Ramming ability, But Its Most Important asset are Single Forward-Facing 300pdr Armstrong Rifle, The Most Powerful Gun on The Seas, with the Longest Reach.
Use Them as Snipers. Shoot, Then Reverse, Luring The Enemy into Your Other Ships Broadsides.

Sorry i meant Roanoke the American one.

**~~weirdoascensor~~** · February 21, 2013, 10:07 AM

Originally Posted by The-Monetary

Sorry i meant Roanoke the American one.

...Huh? I'm not Quoting you...

**DarkArk** · February 21, 2013, 02:09 PM

Use Them as Snipers. Shoot, Then Reverse

With the slowest ship in the game. Right. It's a true ironclad able to take a lot of punishment, and the gatling guns and ramming munch things at close range.

So screw warrior and L'ocean.

This man speaks the truth. The Warrior gets the pulp pounded out of it by two Roanokes which are also cheaper.

**♘Top Hat Zebra** · February 22, 2013, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by DarkArk

With the slowest ship in the game. Right. It's a true ironclad able to take a lot of punishment, and the gatling guns and ramming munch things at close range.

No, he's right. The Kotetsu will absolutely demolish ships with it 300pdr cannon. They are good at close range, but they truly excel in long range engagements as support for ships with more guns.

**RandarKal** · February 22, 2013, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by DarkArk

With the slowest ship in the game. Right. It's a true ironclad able to take a lot of punishment, and the gatling guns and ramming munch things at close range.

This man speaks the truth. The Warrior gets the pulp pounded out of it by two Roanokes which are also cheaper.

Kotetsu might be slow turning, but it is capable of outrunning a number of ships (faster then corvettes) by just hitting the "ram" button

I have below, a screenshot in which i raced the Kotetsu against a number of other ships, this is just after the "ram" button finished its cooldown. (that said, I still typically send the Kotetsu in for ramming, as opposed to sniping)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**arun** · February 22, 2013, 12:37 AM

Just to be clear, I meant the normal Ironclads, not the foreign ships. So which one of these two do you prefer - the Armored Frigate or the unlimited Ironclad? I am going with 2 ironclads plus 1 frigate and the rest armored corvettes - is this sensible? Money is not an issue in my current campaign, but it might be if I started as a clan in northern Japan.

EDIT: As several people have mentioned the foreign ships, I should also mention them. I chose the US for the Ronoake and the artillery bonus. My 4 Armstrong Guns per army with Golden accuracy and reload/accuracy bonuses from the General and Foreign Veteran are just blowing the AI to shreds.

**I WUB PUGS** · February 25, 2013, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by arun

Just to be clear, I meant the normal Ironclads, not the foreign ships. So which one of these two do you prefer - the Armored Frigate or the unlimited Ironclad? I am going with 2 ironclads plus 1 frigate and the rest armored corvettes - is this sensible? Money is not an issue in my current campaign, but it might be if I started as a clan in northern Japan.

EDIT: As several people have mentioned the foreign ships, I should also mention them. I chose the US for the Ronoake and the artillery bonus. My 4 Armstrong Guns per army with Golden accuracy and reload/accuracy bonuses from the General and Foreign Veteran are just blowing the AI to shreds.

The Japanese Kotetsu Ironclad (CSS Stonewall) is a close-in weapon. I believe the bow gun has great range, but there is only one of them. Don't bother building these Kotetsus until you research ramming doctrine. They are tough ships but lack fire power. That said if you get into the enemy fleet and perhaps ram the first ship, your guns and gatlings will make relatively short work of the enemy.

For a gun fight you don't want to be standing off with your Kotetsus, eventually they'll sink. I very nearly lost a Roanoke the other day after I took on 9 wooden hulled frigates. I sunk 8 of them but I took a huge amount of damage and she started to sink a few times. The Kotetsus are nowhere near as tough as the Roanokes and will not stand up to the pounding from long range guns.

Edit: Oh yes, it is possible to simply sit way back with your Kotetsus and fire the main gun all day, but that is gamey and against a player or if the AI steams at you quickly may get you into trouble. Close with the ram and your gatlings..............its more fun.

**Cruzz** · February 25, 2013, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by I WUB PUGS

The Japanese Kotetsu Ironclad (CSS Stonewall) is a close-in weapon. I believe the bow gun has great range, but there is only one of them. Don't bother building these Kotetsus until you research ramming doctrine. They are tough ships but lack fire power. That said if you get into the enemy fleet and perhaps ram the first ship, your guns and gatlings will make relatively short work of the enemy.

For a gun fight you don't want to be standing off with your Kotetsus, eventually they'll sink. I very nearly lost a Roanoke the other day after I took on 9 wooden hulled frigates. I sunk 8 of them but I took a huge amount of damage and she started to sink a few times. The Kotetsus are nowhere near as tough as the Roanokes and will not stand up to the pounding from long range guns.

All 3 cannons on the Kotetsu are of the Kotetsu cannon variant, which is the most powerful and highest range cannon in the game, having 4x the shot damage, +250 (33% increase) range, +35 accuracy(100% increase) compared to frigate/corvette cannons. Warrior and Roanoke/Locean cannons are also weaker than Kotetsu, though stronger than the corvette/frigate ones. Due to the way they're located you pretty much can't fire on the same target with even 2 unless the target is very close, but you still shouldn't underestimate the firepower of the ship.

**John Adams** · February 25, 2013, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by arun

The armoured frigate costs more than the ironclad, takes 1 extra turn to build. It has less range and hull strength than the ironclad. So why should I build them? Is it just better to build the ironclads and support them with armoured corvettes? The AI is costing me at least 5-7k each turn in ship and port repairs, and I really need to put an end to the AI's fleet.

Also, how does naval XP work? If you lose your men/cannons, do they lose XP? Or with hull damage?

The autoresolve is messed up even on Normal, and it ends up destroying my Ronoake ironclad very frequently. The autoresolve works great for land battles, perhaps even too well.

I have not used the ships in single player, however, for multiplayer I prefer the armored frigate (or the armored corvette) over the frigate because it has more hull strength (if I remember correctly). Ironclads are generally better, however, it depends on what the rest of your fleet is. I suggest you build ironclads as the main ships of your fleet, supported by armored frigates, armored corvettes, or even normal frigates. Send in your ironclads first, as it has been my experience they are less likely to blow up in the face of overwhelming enemy fire (the Roanoke class being the best for this due to the low profile).

~John

**jonny duck** · February 25, 2013, 05:15 PM

For naval bombardments, is it only the number of cannon that determines the power of it?

**Basileos Leandros I** · February 26, 2013, 12:12 PM

One thing I don't get about Ironclads - their frontal gun, coupled with the Advanced AP shell can destroy an entire fleet if aimed very well. Destroyed 3 frigates out of 3 shots in a naval MP, I had no clue how that even happened.

**SPARTAN VI** · February 28, 2013, 07:13 PM

As said before, Ironclads are limited in production yet the most valuable ship in any fleet. Capture as many of these as possible after you've built all that are available to you.

I also use Ironclads as snipers to lure enemy fleets into my main fleet's broadside. I hardly ever use their ram or gatling gun, their bow cannon with AP shells is just too devastating to risk taking any damage by ships with inferior range but more cannons. To snipe and lure, I place my Ironclads in the center of a single line formation, approach the enemy fleet at a uniform speed; the moment their bow cannons fire I order a full stop, then rotate the main fleet into a concave firing arc. This is done by selecting the ships on the flanks of the Ironclad and using the HUD speed and direction controls to essentially "fan out" the flanks.