I dont get it

**Berossus** · February 17, 2013, 09:49 AM

My katanas (4-5 xp) lose to naginata monks.
They lose to Naginata Samurai.
My naginata Monks lose to katanas. Also to naginata samurai.
My naginata Samurai lose to everything, including ashigaru.

I just had +3 melee katanas lose to vanilla katanas.

4 Units of foot samurai kill 1 long ashigaru per volley.
4 units. 1 ashigaru.
He had 0 xp.

i dont get it.

**TheCrazyCat** · February 17, 2013, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Berossus

My katanas (4-5 xp) lose to naginata monks.
They lose to Naginata Samurai.
My naginata Monks lose to katanas. Also to naginata samurai.
My naginata Samurai lose to everything, including ashigaru.

I just had +3 melee katanas lose to vanilla katanas.

4 Units of foot samurai kill 1 long ashigaru per volley.
4 units. 1 ashigaru.
He had 0 xp.

i dont get it.

can you show us a replay?

**Berossus** · February 17, 2013, 01:32 PM

No, i pretty much ragequit to save my monitor from being bashed in...
Ill try to remember next time i fail for no apparent reason, im sure theres something im missing but i cant for the heck of it figure out what it is.

**zaript** · February 17, 2013, 01:37 PM

Well, raging isn't the best way to learn.
Looking at what happened with calm eyes might be better approach.

**Berossus** · February 17, 2013, 03:41 PM

I looked with calm eyes how 180 arrows per salvo killed a single ashigaru with 0xp and 4 armor... i cant learn from that, only believe that something isnt quite right.

**Berossus** · February 17, 2013, 04:03 PM

Ok, only thing i learned so far is: Dont go to battle without at least 5 units of top veterancy yari cavalry.
The last 5 opponents had 4 units of rank 7+, so i need to field 5.

**CptAustus** · February 17, 2013, 05:12 PM

5 high veterancy yari cavalry? Thats a waste of money, just bring 2 or 3 and support them with spears. Bow samurai arent the best either, switch to Daikyu or Bow Monks. Also, retainers, general and overall enviromental conditions affect a lot melee.

**Berossus** · February 18, 2013, 03:22 AM

Every battle i have, the enemy is fielding at least 3 units of heavy veteranced spear cav, more often than not great guard supported by another 1-2 yari or fire cav/shizugatake. I can field either no cav at all, or substantially more than him, else he just runs them down and my money is wasted again.

If i go all infantry, he just kills me off with matchlock cav/bow cav, if i want to kill those i have to have cavalry advantage, which means i have to bypass his great guard/fire cav, which in turn means i have to go cav heavy.

This of course affects my infantry, which i seem to be losing for no reason sometimes.
Katanas are supposed to counter naginatas, but i havent got around finding a counter to monks.
Every Naginata monk i encounter just wipes the floor with my katanas, they suck up the damage from my nodachi and then lay waste to them. I cant kill them.
Arrows dont work, I cant kill enough of them. If he just rushes to my position, he has enough manpower left to simply cleave his way through my samurai, be it katanas or naginatas.
I dont know what to do since as long as half the unit gets into melee with my +2 +1 Katanas (blade master and yagyu retainer) they just kill them face to face. Last night i tried excessively flanking them, still got wasted.

Problem might also be, i rarely see anyone who fields monks below rank 9. At rank 9 they just seem to be unkillable.

At another time i fielded my naginata samurai core (4 units rank 5) with naginata attendend meatshield and nodachi flanks.
He brought 6 unvetted katas and 6 unvetted nodachis and casually smahed through my lines. Didnt give a

, just shamed through.
When i tried to copy that tactic with my rank 5 katas and rank 4 dachis, i got stuck in the line and got hacked to pieces. No flanking, just slugging it out and me losing hard.

I also tried to skirmish hard, my bow monks got killed by daiukus, my bow hero got killed by bow monks.
Hes got rank 3, 100 accuracy and killed 0-1 monks per volley. I dont know why.
I tried mounted gunners, but line of sight is seriously screwed for matchlocks and they usually do not shoot at all or run up into melee.

Also i dont know why my frontlines usually crumbles and routs with my fully leadership skilled general giving rally and then stand and fight, and his swordsman general sits back.
I kinda thought i should have the moral high ground, but appearently casualties outweigh the leadership tree.

Im basically out of ideas.

**TheCrazyCat** · February 18, 2013, 05:41 AM

well ofc, missile heroes arent that good to begin with due to the low amount of men in the unit.

**CptAustus** · February 18, 2013, 06:03 PM

A decently employed no dachi will kill 50+ swords, regardless of veterancy, just because of the massive charge and melee attack. Many people will rush an inferior cavalry if they are getting shot by bow cavalry, perfect for an ambush. Katana cavalry is perfect to ambush infantry just before the battle begins; in a perfect world each vanilla will get 60+ kills. And naginata monks will NEVER "just" soak up damage from no dachis, they are extremely susceptible to charges, but are still powerful units. I'm not sure the "main" army right now in AC, but 1 light cavalry,1 bow cavalry, 2 yari cavalry, 4 no dachis, 4 katanas, 1-2 matchlock monks/samurai was a solid base for me, plenty of spare koku for veterancy and situational units. Also, can you give us a couple of replays? It might be tactical problems rather than army selection.

**Berossus** · February 19, 2013, 04:08 AM

Ill try to get a couple of replays if this streak continues, the last days ive basically been testing around...

No dachis did lose to monks if both where vanilla and using their skills, provided the monk is smart enough to warcry after Banzai has worn off. The charge does amazing damage, but in sustained melee the monks cut the nodachis up pretty good.

Now my problem is, i face mostly extremly vetted monks, rank 9 seems to be pretty standard and i guess for a reason, because they will neither break nor die properly to anything short of matchlocks, and when the frontlines clash i cant really matchlock them so they have free reign amongst my men.

Guess its time to grind up rank 9 frontliners.