[Staff Referral] Harry Lime - Insulting Others (3 points) [Further Action]

[Daily]

It was a general question

[M D]

I still have no idea how to vote.. ARRGH

I think I may go for further action and then a Censure, just to remind him

[General Brewster]

This man did to many to strip his rank for me personally. I'll go further action censure

[Aikanár]

2 hours and 10 minutes

[Aikanár]

Poll.

[General Brewster]

voted further action

[Diamat]

I voted for further action.

[Robin de Bodemloze]

Dismiss.

[Daily]

Further action

[m_1512]

I am bit confused.

Further action for the swear words or dismiss for the admirable courage of standing up to people? Any suggestions appreciated.

[Aikanár]

I am bit confused.

Further action for the swear words or dismiss for the admirable courage of standing up to people? Any suggestions appreciated.

Imagine I (no moderation and no referral history) would have posted what Harry did. How would you judge?

[m_1512]

Imagine I (no moderation and no referral history) would have posted what Harry did. How would you judge?

Imagining a scenario where such swear words were not used.

I would have dismissed the case in consideration of the overall contributions and the purpose for what you did it. It's the same in Harry's case. I am of the mind to dismiss the case as an exception to usual proceedings. But I am more concerned whether ignoring the use of such words would be dereliction on duty.

[Aikanár]

Imagining a scenario where such swear words were not used.

I would have dismissed the case in consideration of the overall contributions and the purpose for what you did it. It's the same in Harry's case. I am of the mind to dismiss the case as an exception to usual proceedings. But I am more concerned whether ignoring the use of such words would be dereliction on duty.

Your duty is to manage the granting and removal of Curia ranks by voting. How you fill out your duty is only limited by the constitution and your discretion. The constitution does mention behavior two times, in the index and as title of Article I, Section IV. There is no definition of what behavior of a citizen might or might not be. However, we do know that in order to qualify for citizenship, you must not have received an infraction in the last 6 months and no active infraction. You are elected to form your own opinion and definition about what you think behaviour becoming or unbecoming of a citizen might be. Of course, you can be held accountable for your actions and neglections.

All this is known to you.

Now, what you have to do is to form yourself an opinion whether or not Harry's behavior was becoming or unbecoming of a citizen. You are not limited in your discretional means in order to arrive at your decision.

Edit:
If you want my personal opinion, I personally really value Harry. I had the pleasure to work with him, even if only for a short time and I always enjoyed his posts. Furthermore I do agree in his assessment and I fully understand why he posted, but if I had to vote in this case, I would vote further action because this is not what I consider citizen behaviour, no matter how much I personally agree with what he wrote.

I absolutely have no clue what further action I would vote for, that I would still have to make my mind up for and it could absolutely turn out to be a censure or even an abstain if I could not force me to cast a dice. But I would vote further action.

However, it is your decision and even thought people might disagree with your decision, they will respect it.

[General Brewster]

I very much support your opinion M

[Lord William]

Harry is definitely a valued member of TWC working in several branches of including the hex, when he posted this post he was fully aware of the consequences and did it intentionally. This sort of behaviour from such valued member only justifies other violators, it is my opinion that we should make an example out of Harry saying that no matter who you or what your justifications are you are still accountable.

[General Brewster]

I disagree if it weren't for Harry the site wouldn't be as it is today. no he isn't above the ToS but we can certainly show some clemency in my opinion.
We could strip him of rank and then what ? would anyone get better of that ?. In the wise words of Daily "Give ehm a slap on the wrist" and that's that. We don't have to be the devils advocate all the time.

My die is cast.

(you probably spell it different)

[m_1512]

Harry is definitely a valued member of TWC working in several branches of including the hex, when he posted this post he was fully aware of the consequences and did it intentionally. This sort of behaviour from such valued member only justifies other violators, it is my opinion that we should make an example out of Harry saying that no matter who you or what your justifications are you are still accountable.

I disagree. Do you think this was a case of flexing muscles? Just read the posts again. Harry was in fact making an example. Consider a small example. Supposing citizen behavior was like gentleman behavior. And a scenario where some people were bullying someone. What would be unbecoming? Standing up to them or slipping away to find some more bigger guys?

I disagree if it weren't for Harry the site wouldn't be as it is today. no he isn't above the ToS but we can certainly show some clemency in my opinion.
We could strip him of rank and then what ? would anyone get better of that ?. In the wise words of Daily "Give ehm a slap on the wrist" and that's that. We don't have to be the devils advocate all the time.

My die is cast.

(you probably spell it different)

Strip him of rank, and does anyone really think he will bother apply again?


And Aikanár, thanks for the advice. I think I'll vote further action due to presence of the swear words, but nothing more than Censure.

[General Brewster]

Does he deserve to be stripped of rank ? I don't think so. He did way more good things then bad things.
Agree on the censure.

[Robin de Bodemloze]

I am astounded and appalled people are talking about removal of rank. Honestly guys....

[General Brewster]

Well said.