[Staff Referral] Harry Lime - Insulting Others (3 points) [Further Action]

[m_1512]

I agree with Aikanár. As again we are not here to decide punishment or the fairness of it. But since we are talking, let's us do some post analysis.

But we should be allowed to be frank. If a member posts racism, I should be able to call them a racist. That is not asking much. But the nannying of the staff prevented this, and they were emboldened.

Reading between the lines, Ferrets was justifying the proposal by the argument that he wants to call people names like racist or bully, which in itself is defined as insults by the ToS, not to mention that it is a serious accusation. While I am against racism and bullying, insulting is simply not a solution to any problem. I might add that it will simply aggravate it.

Then we come to the next part.

Why wait until the rules are changed let's start right now.

I also post this in the sure and certain knowledge that I will receive at least 12 points for insulting others/censor-bypassing, despite never having received an infraction before, and it would be well warranted. What an insulting I am.

So, what could this mean? In my opinion, the first quote itself is his trump card. This cold show that the intent of the entire post is like something what you call taste of your own medicine.

Now coming to the important part. Punishment, we can entirely forget about it. The moderation has done it's job by issuing the infraction, and should he appeal, the tribunal will do it's job. Now we are to decide our actions.

Personally, this is a once in a blue moon case where the CdeC has been given a chance to show their mettle. Why dismiss the case on the reason that it is the wish of most people? The way I see it, HL did what seemed right for him, standing up without thinking of the consequences. If we think that is a citizen like behavior, then we can dismiss the case.

[Diamat]

Good post, Aik. Whatever the case, I simply cannot get it over my conscience to dismiss something like this. To me, regardless of the circumstances, this is entirely unbecoming of a citizen. No citizen should make posts like this. It is pervaded with insults. And these are not just minor insults, such as "feck off," but insults that are meant to hurt the other person. And they are not just said once, but many times over. With these actions, in my opinion, he did NOT exemplify the citizenry, for no citizen, no matter how much he detests a person, should do something like this. Whether I agree or disagree with HL's opinion is entirely irrelevant to me. What I am concerned with is the vehicle he chose to express this opinion. This is what I think must be punished, that is, not the opinion, but the way in which he expressed it.

[m_1512]

Then you must do what seems right to you.

To ease your conscience, you could try see the intent behind this case.

[Aikanár]

Defense request still not possible, email not possible.

[Daily]

I just saw this and will update myself within 30 minutes. I have to say though Harry had me laughing out loud at his bluntness. Reserving the post

__________________

Why are we even discussing this? We are to decide if this behaviour is fitting for a citizen. Its not. What? Just because several people in here dislike Ferrets doesn't exempt the fact that he used words which I have never seen on TWC before. Do I think that his honesty is a sign of worry? Yes absolutely but he completely broke his act here and there is no excuse for that.

Further Action from me.

[Ybbon]

Daily has summed this up nicely. "Is it behaviour becoming a citizen?" No it is not. Substitute any other citizens in place of HL and Ferrets and the same word used by A to describe B no matter how annoying B was, would we consider anything other than further action? I doubt it. Irrespective of what justification he felt there was no excuse to be using that language.

TWC has an age policy of 13 years or older. Due to that, anything resembling porn or bad language is expressly prohibited, now we have probably all come across posts that toe the line on whether it is acceptable or not, but this one took a very long run and jumped way past the line. It cannot be seen to be forgiven no matter who made it and for what reason as that then allows future appeals that if Harry was allowed to call Ferrets a ... then I should be allowed to call X a lesser name. Of course each case is individual and it does not set a precedent but it is simply not acceptable to use that level of swearing. I cannot see anything other than further action.

On another point, given the post was deleted for the language used, can it be made public as that would require the exact language to then be displayed? Who determines if it is public/private?

[Aikanár]

On another point, given the post was deleted for the language used, can it be made public as that would require the exact language to then be displayed? Who determines if it is public/private?

The referred citizen decides whether or not he wants his case public or private.

Concerning the infraction, it doesn't matter, like in any given Tribunal appeal (see pretty much every insulting others appeal the insult is posted in the infraction), what the content of the post is, as long as it is not porn. Porn would be excempt and only posted in closed Tribunal quarters or in this case, CdeC quarters.

Edit: In this special case, I would edit the censor bypass in order that it is displayed as it should as s

[Lord William]

Further action, my only question is how severe should his punishment be

rank removal?

[m_1512]

I agree with you all.

But think of the whole picture. True, context wise he should not have used those words. But if you see it all, he was just demonstrating like how it would become if the rules were changed.

Now I want some opinions, are to remove a citizen for the words he used when he has already been infracted? And does intent play any role here?

[Ybbon]

These are two separate issues, first we decide if there is to be further action. That should be considered as distinct from what action we then take if further action is agreed.

[Aikanár]

^I couldn't have put it in a better way!

[m_1512]

Big picture wise, he was simply displaying an age-old concept called taste of own medicine. But true, he need not have used the swear words like the c word. I won't mention the word here since the last thing I want is another infraction.

Give me some time to think.

[m_1512]

For the duty, further action. But dismiss by my call.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

"An Honorable man.....overwhelemed, hurls himself into the breech. Wrathful Woe to any of the jackels who woost assail him."

Further Action.

Question: Is a members ability to display there badge revoked while under censure?

As to punishment. Well luckily Harry is currently off cycle as Tribune, Hex, and whatever other things Harry gets into around here.

Suspension of rank for one week .

Yes it's 1st offence, but said in open forum and utilizing free-flowing profanity. Harry did keep the references even keel though {=} as far as context goes. In other words what he called Feretts, he also called himself.

One week so it's publically visible that something was done and over the top farvoritism wasn't in play. To be honest though...I've done far worst here. Yet, in those days, now long since gone, Empress Deva's walked the earth and conquered all by merely battling an eyelash.

[General Brewster]

Just a question don't kill me now Aik. Is someone taking in mind what the man did for this site ?

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

I sure as hell am! If I could, I'd walk away from this with a censure.

[Daily]

Just a question don't kill me now Aik. Is someone taking in mind what the man did for this site ?

Don't let Aik decide that. He can suggest and guide you on the path he deems appropriate but in the end you have been chosen for this post and it is you who have to decide.

I am taking in the meaning and feelings he ushered in on the message. If this was just plain bashing it would have been something else. This man threw his emotions at the screen and poured out boiled up feelings. When you read that you truly understood the hostility and unfriendliness that sadly dominate a lot of the other parts of the forum. I felt the frustration that man have felt and couldn't help to smile a little at the bluntness in the post. This does not however excuse him. Further action, maybe even removal of rank, but I think we should discuss the punishment when we have voted on the next stage.

[Aikanár]

Further Action.

Question: Is a members ability to display there badge revoked while under censure?

As to punishment. Well luckily Harry is currently off cycle as Tribune, Hex, and whatever other things Harry gets into around here.

Suspension of rank for one week .

Yes it's 1st offence, but said in open forum and utilizing free-flowing profanity. Harry did keep the references even keel though {=} as far as context goes. In other words what he called Feretts, he also called himself.

One week so it's publically visible that something was done and over the top farvoritism wasn't in play. To be honest though...I've done far worst here. Yet, in those days, now long since gone, Empress Deva's walked the earth and conquered all by merely battling an eyelash.

A censure is not a CdeC warning. A censure is just a caution, a note: "Don't do that again." or, if CdeC so chooses, a more explicit one like you put together in mongrel's case. Hence, the badge is only removed for a suspension.

Just a question don't kill me now Aik. Is someone taking in mind what the man did for this site ?

Don't let Aik decide that. He can suggest and guide you on the path he deems appropriate but in the end you have been chosen for this post and it is you who have to decide.

Precisely.

Spoiler for PS: 

There goes my masterplan of a puppet CdeC ... darn you Daily, daaaaaaarn yoouuuuuuuuuu ...

Spoiler for PPS: 

I shall go to the Forum Magnum and remain Aik ...

Spoiler for PPPS: 

My precious

[Daily]

Precisely.

Spoiler for PS: 

There goes my masterplan of a puppet CdeC ... darn you Daily, daaaaaaarn yoouuuuuuuuuu ...

Spoiler for PPS: 

I shall go to the Forum Magnum and remain Aik ...

Spoiler for PPPS: 

My precious

Your plan of power hungriness will never see fruition Mister Aikanár. I swear it upon me axe!

Anyhow how long till the vote begins?

[General Brewster]

It was a general question