Best faction?

[randomguy50]

Hey guys, I usually play RTW with Darthmod Rome, but recently decided to get Darthmod for M2TW and begin a new campaign. Any ideas on the best faction to play as, or just the most fun?

My battle tactics usually lean towards heavy/light infantry with supporting medium cavalry and maybe a small contingent of heavy cav.

Thanks!

[Sar1n]

France or England. They have good rosters without many weaknesses. France is a bit better in this, but England got better starting position.

[randomguy50]

Thanks, I think I will go with England cause when I first got the game I played as France. Yeah...that campaign didn't go too well....somehow got into a war with nearly everybody around me

[Comrade Roboto]

Thanks, I think I will go with England cause when I first got the game I played as France. Yeah...that campaign didn't go too well....somehow got into a war with nearly everybody around me

Well, get used to it, because when you get too big everyone wants to tone you down at all costs. And then the Mongols come... .

[Kaiser Nonsense]

Well, get used to it, because when you get too big everyone wants to tone you down at all costs. And then the Mongols come... .

Well, I think I was one got used to it, when I arrived first at TWC I wasn't the newbie I was at my first campaign, but I still had a lot to learn, well, look how is my progress now, I'd say it's bloody damn successful would you not?

Here is my progress, take a look at the overall ranking and the balance at my treasury. And those are the only living factions, with the exception of the Aztecs in the New World, I'm yet to conquer entire Europe before going there!



And this one my military ranking, notice that even the now-dead Mongols were not even once more powerful than I was:

[AntonioBarbarian]

Well, get used to it, because when you get too big everyone wants to tone you down at all costs. And then the Mongols come... .

And after them the Timmies and the world is doomed to eternal darkness

[Eugene of Savoy]

I would say England or France.

England is decent all round. Great longbowmen, good infantry, only problem is cavalry isn't anything special. Good enough in the early periods with feudal and mailed knights but no match for other factions late cavalry. Another thing is your earlier infantry is not so good, bellmen are the worst heavy infantry in the game. I have seen them being routed by spear militia.

France is the best in the late period, having good missile units like Adventurers and Scot's guard, decent enough infantry and outstanding cavalry. Their early units are mediocre at best though

[Vampiresbane]

I'm playing Spain and am loving it. For a long time I was put off by their early use of javelins, but now I'm sold on javelin cavalry. These guys are pure general killers. Just unstoppable. I'll list a bunch of different categories I can think of. Take these with a grain a salt since all of this is IMO.

Best faction? For me it depends on what you're talking about:
Overall: Venice (has good units throughout all periods, is the only faction during the late period to have morters AND muskets AND monster ribaults; their heavy infantry is considered one of the best in the entire game)
Late Period: Spain/Portugal (either faction have great end game pike units, muskets, and the best cannon in the game-the basilisk; they also get access to the best end game ships and conquistadors-both cavalry and infantry)
Largest Infantry Mix: Scotland/Denmark/HRE (Great unique units that give even late game factions a hard time)
Best Cavalry: Turkey/Byzantines/Russia (Cheap&Plentiful? Turkey; Expensive but most effective? Byzantines; Heaviest armored, nasty in melee, but still considered missile cavalry? Russia)
Best Hybrid Infantry: Turkey/Russia (Turkey get the Ottoman infantry while Russia gets Dismounted Dvor with Axes)
Best Archers: England (Longbowmen not only have great range and fire rate, but also have armor piercing arrows and stakes) (Turkey at some point gets Janissary Archers, but these are very late and Englad gets three levels of longbowmen)

[Maklodes]

Largest Infantry Mix: Scotland/Denmark/HRE (Great unique units that give even late game factions a hard time)

Could you (or someone else reading this) explain the HRE one to me? Because it seems to me that the HRE gets some good infantry units shared with other factions (dismounted feudal knights, pavise crossbowmen, armoured sergeants), and it gets some unique infantry units that generally suck (dismounted imperial knights, forlorn hope, zwei hander), but I can't think of any good unique infantry.

(Now, if any of the HRE's unique infantry were capable of consistently beating Iberian sword militias...)

[Vampiresbane]

Could you (or someone else reading this) explain the HRE one to me? Because it seems to me that the HRE gets some good infantry units shared with other factions (dismounted feudal knights, pavise crossbowmen, armoured sergeants), and it gets some unique infantry units that generally suck (dismounted imperial knights, forlorn hope, zwei hander), but I can't think of any good unique infantry.

(Now, if any of the HRE's unique infantry were capable of consistently beating Iberian sword militias...)

I think HRE unique units shine when you use them primarily for what they're designed for. IE you don't use dismounted imperial knights against spearmen or zwei handers as a defensive frontline. Plus I didn't necessarily say HRE had the best infantry, just one of the largest infantry mixes.

Here's what I've used HRE's various unique units for:
Dismounted imperial knights: other heavy infantry (not as great as Venice's unique heavies, but they still get AP maces which chews armor up)
Zweihander: Charging flanks of any infantry, even better against pikes
Forlorn Hope: Garrisoning my cities in a pinch, but mainly just for fighting in the streets

Dismounted Feudal Knights & Armoured sergeants would still form the backbone of an infantry heavy army, but I'd use the unique HRE units to give the army as a whole more flavor and more flexibility.

[Kaiser Nonsense]

I'm playing Spain and am loving it. For a long time I was put off by their early use of javelins, but now I'm sold on javelin cavalry. These guys are pure general killers. Just unstoppable. I'll list a bunch of different categories I can think of. Take these with a grain a salt since all of this is IMO.

Best faction? For me it depends on what you're talking about:
Overall: Venice (has good units throughout all periods, is the only faction during the late period to have morters AND muskets AND monster ribaults; their heavy infantry is considered one of the best in the entire game)
Late Period: Spain/Portugal (either faction have great end game pike units, muskets, and the best cannon in the game-the basilisk; they also get access to the best end game ships and conquistadors-both cavalry and infantry)
Largest Infantry Mix: Scotland/Denmark/HRE (Great unique units that give even late game factions a hard time)
Best Cavalry: Turkey/Byzantines/Russia (Cheap&Plentiful? Turkey; Expensive but most effective? Byzantines; Heaviest armored, nasty in melee, but still considered missile cavalry? Russia)
Best Hybrid Infantry: Turkey/Russia (Turkey get the Ottoman infantry while Russia gets Dismounted Dvor with Axes)
Best Archers: England (Longbowmen not only have great range and fire rate, but also have armor piercing arrows and stakes) (Turkey at some point gets Janissary Archers, but these are very late and Englad gets three levels of longbowmen)

Sorry mate, there is no other faction to match France's knights, both in-game and real life history. The Turks, Byzantines and Russians don't even have knights, they have peasants riding lame horses and throwing things at you.

[Maklodes]

The funny thing is that the Turks have better heavy melee cavalry than the French (Qapukulu vs. Noble knights/Chivalric knights/lancers), while the French have better horse archers than the Turks (French mounted archers vs. sipahis). Go figure.

[Maklodes]

I think that for light infantry/heavy infantry and medium cavalry/heavy cavalry, Spain is a decent choice. They get almughavars for light infantry, and later neat stuff like swordsmen militias and sword-and-buckler men. Their heavy infantry isn't really special in the Old World, but they do get dismounted feudal and chivalric knights (in the New World, they get arguably the best heavy infantry in the game -- dismounted conquistadors). Jinetes are classed as missile cavalry, but they move like the fastest light cavalry and can fight in the thick of it nearly on par with some heavy cavalry. Their selection of heavy cavalry is decent, featuring the usual mailed, feudal, and chivalric knights (and possibly knights of Santiago). They also have a fairly secure starting position, aside from the Moors and Portuguese.

If by "light infantry" you mean "archers," then England is also a good choice. Probably billmen aren't worth bothering with, though, unless you have no choice. They don't have any real standout medium cavalry that I can think of (unless you count mailed knights?), and their heavy cavalry is sorta average. They have great heavy infantry, though. Armoured swordsmen are like dismounted chivalric knights that can be obtained earlier and are cheaper to maintain.

I can't think of much to do with French light infantry.

[shikaka]

Hey guys, I usually play RTW with Darthmod Rome, but recently decided to get Darthmod for M2TW and begin a new campaign. Any ideas on the best faction to play as, or just the most fun?

My battle tactics usually lean towards heavy/light infantry with supporting medium cavalry and maybe a small contingent of heavy cav.

Thanks!

Generally, heavy infantry in the game is available in the form of dismounted knights. The 2 nations which can do this earliest are Sicily and Hungary: they start with the most advanced castles (Bran and Palermo), so they can train dismounted knights before anyone else. Both of them have nice support cavalry and infantry as well.
If you want an infantry army, Sicily is better of the two, as they have easy access to average spearmen (italian spear militia), while Hungary is better in the support cavalry department. Both have quality crossbowmen too.

I think both campaigns are more interesting then an ultra-easy English one.

[Aeratus]

There is no one "best faction." But I think the following factions are best in their respective categories:

1. Best in having a safe starting location: England.

2. Best in having a well-rounded and large roster: France

3. Best in having high-end elite units: Russia

4. Best in having stylishness of units: Holy Roman Empire (everybody loves 2h swords and Gothic knights for their style, even if unintentionally weak in the vanilla version)

5. Best in rapidly conquering the world in 20 turns or less (lol): Turks

6. Best in having specialist units: Moors (Hashashim, camel gunners, naffatun)

7. Best in being able to expand to non-catholic territories while being a Catholic faction: Spain, Poland, Hungary

[Aide-de-camp]

For most exciting and diverse combat i prefer England and France - they have late professional armies. And doing a campaign army in enemy territory with army stacked with professionals, penetrating far into enemy territory - much more fun then having multiple stacks of peasants and throwing yourself onto enemy walls.

It's all about war, not territories

[Maklodes]

For most exciting and diverse combat i prefer England and France - they have late professional armies. And doing a campaign army in enemy territory with army stacked with professionals, penetrating far into enemy territory - much more fun then having multiple stacks of peasants and throwing yourself onto enemy walls.

It's all about war, not territories

Who do you have in mind as a faction that relies on "having multiple stacks of peasants and throwing yourself onto enemy walls?" I mean, I know people sometimes play peasant campaigns as a challenge, but I don't think any factions really rely on that much except for a challenge. I guess you could say that the Moors use peasant crossbowmen a lot (because Moorish peasant crossbowmen are actually pretty good, like mercenary crossbowmen), and you could think of the Italian factions with their militias that way (although I tend to think of the militias more as burghers than peasants -- civilians, but not rural farmers specifically).

[Aide-de-camp]

Who do you have in mind as a faction that relies on "having multiple stacks of peasants and throwing yourself onto enemy walls?" I mean, I know people sometimes play peasant campaigns as a challenge, but I don't think any factions really rely on that much except for a challenge. I guess you could say that the Moors use peasant crossbowmen a lot (because Moorish peasant crossbowmen are actually pretty good, like mercenary crossbowmen), and you could think of the Italian factions with their militias that way (although I tend to think of the militias more as burghers than peasants -- civilians, but not rural farmers specifically).

Well i hate eastern factions for example. Love that era, love those states back then, their look etc, but that cheap way of fighting i can't stand it. Too many skirmishers and units of low morale. I don't like running around like a wet chicken. I prefer formations, billmen keeping their lines stubbornly while longbows do the best of their ability and general risk his head trying to protect flank.

[shikaka]

Well i hate eastern factions for example. Love that era, love those states back then, their look etc, but that cheap way of fighting i can't stand it. Too many skirmishers and units of low morale. I don't like running around like a wet chicken. I prefer formations, billmen keeping their lines stubbornly while longbows do the best of their ability and general risk his head trying to protect flank.

Why is fighting (and winning) with units not capable of the passive billmen+longbowmen tactic cheap?

[Sir Adrian]

Why is fighting (and winning) with units not capable of the passive billmen+longbowmen tactic cheap?

I think he meant cheap as in the quality of the units and the feel of the battle, not the tactics employed (in which case you would be right, the billmen + longbows is the cheapest one out there)