Don't make pikes and spears sheathable!

**Anna_Gein** · February 11, 2013, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by Dan113112

I understand your point now. What I meant is that pikemen are supposed to fight pitched battles but are supposed to keep the enemy at a distance with their pikes. When it comes to closing that gap with swords, Roman infantry are superior.

But it would not happen on any important scale as long as the phalanx would be able to keep its formation.
And any heavy infantry, swordsmen and pikemen alike are butcher once they loose their formation.

Originally Posted by Dan113112

Both the phalangites and legionaires are heavy infantry. In my opinion the Roman infantry is heavier infantry. I'm not sure if that helps but I hope that clears things up.

I see what you mean. Greater shield and often better armour.

On topic I thing any button drop the pike use your sword and the other way would be too much micromanagement for little gain in term of experience.

If your phalanx unit is forced to use their swords instead of their pike on an important scale then their formation is lost and they should not hold 10 seconds before rooting.

**Dan113112** · February 11, 2013, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Anna_Gein

If your phalanx unit is forced to use their swords instead of their pike on an important scale then their formation is lost and they should not hold 10 seconds before rooting.

That isn't always the case. I was playing the RTW mod RTRVII a while back and I've defeated heavier Roman infantry with phalangites out of formation using their swords. Roman infantry is superior in many ways but it's not a definitive battle-winner.

**SonOfCrusader76** · February 11, 2013, 04:48 PM

But do make swords unsheathable! How great would it be to see the guys actually draw their swords just before combat begins?

**Dan113112** · February 11, 2013, 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by SonOfCrusader76

But do make swords unsheathable! How great would it be to see the guys actually draw their swords just before combat begins?

That would be awesome. I would like to see realistic reaction time, though. Longer "barbarian" swords should take longer to draw for example. I would also like to see sarissas and xystons break during battle and phalangites or hoplites have to draw their swords.

**ScytheRayne** · February 11, 2013, 06:55 PM

Battle of Cynoscephalae

Just as a reference. In this particular battle, according to Plutarch, the Roman infantry actually stood against the phalanx formation and held their ground at the bottom of a hill. One of the problems was that being able to wield a shield and gladius gave the romans a much greater advantage at CC versus the Macedonians who were relying on maintaining the formation.

Sure it mostly depended on them catching the phalangites before they'd properly formed up, but that is one of the signature weaknesses of the phalanx. Strong when directly faced, pretty fragile if they're scattered or wedged open. I'm not sure I like the idea of a phalanx being completely useless in that situation gameplay-wise though... being able to pull out even a dagger would be nice!

**Dan113112** · February 11, 2013, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by ScytheRayne

Battle of Cynoscephalae

Just as a reference. In this particular battle, according to Plutarch, the Roman infantry actually stood against the phalanx formation and held their ground at the bottom of a hill. One of the problems was that being able to wield a shield and gladius gave the romans a much greater advantage at CC versus the Macedonians who were relying on maintaining the formation.

Sure it mostly depended on them catching the phalangites before they'd properly formed up, but that is one of the signature weaknesses of the phalanx. Strong when directly faced, pretty fragile if they're scattered or wedged open. I'm not sure I like the idea of a phalanx being completely useless in that situation gameplay-wise though... being able to pull out even a dagger would be nice!

Why isn't there any history on the History Channel anymore? Where did Discovery Civilization go? Damn I miss those. I'm kind of laughing at this video. They used RTW to make it.

**Lieutenant Sharpe** · February 11, 2013, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Dan113112

Why isn't there any history on the History Channel anymore? Where did Discovery Civilization go? Damn I miss those. I'm kind of laughing at this video. They used RTW to make it.

Hahaha, you are so right! Where has history gone?

**♘Top Hat Zebra** · February 12, 2013, 12:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dan113112

That would be awesome. I would like to see realistic reaction time, though. Longer "barbarian" swords should take longer to draw for example. I would also like to see sarissas and xystons break during battle and phalangites or hoplites have to draw their swords.

See, this is one of those comments that just... That's just way too much detail for a video game. Video games where you control one single person rarely simulate this.

As for the topic, I would think it just stays how it is right now. In Shogun 2, the Yari Ashigaru put their pikes on their back when they draw swords. It's unrealistic, sure, but a lot easier than having to hit a button.

**eighthgear** · February 12, 2013, 01:25 AM

Originally Posted by Dan113112

Why isn't there any history on the History Channel anymore? Where did Discovery Civilization go? Damn I miss those. I'm kind of laughing at this video. They used RTW to make it.

It would be pretty cool to have a documentary series use Rome II to display battles. I mean, using a game to show battles is way cheaper than CGI or hiring actors, and Rome II will look way more realistic than Rome I.