American public says it’s illegal to target Americans abroad - but is fine with people of other countries being targeted?

[Dragus]

When polled I selected approval of not only targeting non-Americans abroad but American citizens who are terrorists as well. I hope that it is at least somewhat comforting that my opinion is consistent and I have no view of "superiority" or mercy for an enemy of the secular and free world just because they've held U.S. citizenship.

[Kanaric]

Killing citizens of another sovereign nation by an armed drone is an act of war; if war can be declared on the basis of a sea captain losing an ear, after failing to get redress, then blowing up a bunch of people with a Hellfire missile qualifies.

The only matter in question is if the offended party wishes to pursue that measure.

The mexican border wars in the early 1900s are an example of this archaic view on world politics being long since dismissed. It is not reasonable to assume what is an act of war at all when it comes to crime.

[Heinz Guderian]

okay how about this. you're in the command room in a base in Missouri. you're wearing a tie and you're studying new intel just brought into you. you've tracked a militant who has been attacking American convoys in Afghanistan to a compound in Pakistan. He's an effective engineer and is responsible for building some dangerous IEDs. A drone has been dispatched and his compound is on a big screen in your command room in black and white.

just then, new intel comes in. it says it is a family compound. there could be women and children in there. you dont know though. but you see baby clothes flying on a washing line strewn across the compound. but the compound could be chock full of his henchmen. hell he could be showing them how to make IEDs as you watch the feed.

The drone controller looks up at you and says "sir, do i have permission to fire?"

you hesitate. sweat is dripping off your chin. its hot. you've worked an 18 hour shift. you're hungry.

"sir? now's the time sir. drone has another 5 minutes on standby. the time is now sir. sir?"

What do you do?

I know what 1990s American would say. I would like to know what 2013 American would say.

[Drtad]

The drone controller looks up at you and says "sir, do i have permission to fire?"

you hesitate. sweat is dripping off your chin. its hot. you've worked an 18 hour shift. you're hungry.

"sir? now's the time sir. drone has another 5 minutes on standby. the time is now sir. sir?"

What do you do?

I know what 1990s American would say. I would like to know what 2013 American would say.

"No."

Don't particularly care about what a generalized group of people would say.

[Heinz Guderian]

The drone operator moves his hand away from the kill switch. the drone circles one more time and you see the compound on the screen getting smaller before it blacks out. You let out a sigh and sit down in your executive black leather swivel chair. the drone operator says nothing and avoids looking at you.

A few days later new intel comes in. The Engineer is back in Helmand. That day a Stryker vehicle is blown 50 feet in the air with the loss of 8 US troops. Subsequent investigation reveals the set up and wiring can only be the work of The Engineer.

[Drtad]

The drone operator moves his hand away from the kill switch. the drone circles one more time and you see the compound on the screen getting smaller before it blacks out. You let out a sigh and sit down in your executive black leather swivel chair. the drone operator says nothing and avoids looking at you.

A few days later new intel comes in. The Engineer is back in Helmand. That day a Stryker vehicle is blown 50 feet in the air with the loss of 8 US troops. Subsequent investigation reveals the set up and wiring can only be the work of The Engineer.

Interesting work of fiction, but a fiction it is. I'd think of a different way of getting "The Engineer."

the drone operator says nothing and avoids looking at you.

My favorite line, I think it's priceless!

[Heinz Guderian]

You get a message from a Corporal Josh Harnett. General Hummel wants to see you in his office now. As you gather your papers the guy from Gladiator who betrays Maximus (the guy who says his family will join him in the afterlife before arresting him in his tent) enters the room and says he is taking command. Your only hope now is Harrison Ford.

[Captain Jin]

okay how about this. you're in the command room in a base in Missouri. you're wearing a tie and you're studying new intel just brought into you. you've tracked a militant who has been attacking American convoys in Afghanistan to a compound in Pakistan. He's an effective engineer and is responsible for building some dangerous IEDs. A drone has been dispatched and his compound is on a big screen in your command room in black and white.

just then, new intel comes in. it says it is a family compound. there could be women and children in there. you dont know though. but you see baby clothes flying on a washing line strewn across the compound. but the compound could be chock full of his henchmen. hell he could be showing them how to make IEDs as you watch the feed.

The drone controller looks up at you and says "sir, do i have permission to fire?"

you hesitate. sweat is dripping off your chin. its hot. you've worked an 18 hour shift. you're hungry.

"sir? now's the time sir. drone has another 5 minutes on standby. the time is now sir. sir?"

What do you do?

I know what 1990s American would say. I would like to know what 2013 American would say.

You watch too many movies and television man. That's not how it works.

[Drtad]

You get a message from a Corporal Josh Harnett. General Hummel wants to see you in his office now. As you gather your papers the guy from Gladiator who betrays Maximus (the guy who says his family will join him in the afterlife before arresting him in his tent) enters the room and says he is taking command. Your only hope now is Harrison Ford.

Sounds like fun, unless it involves crystal skulls and the space between the spaces.

Let's say one of the civilians inside The Engineer's compound is little Fatima. When she grows up, she will become a leader in her country who advocates for the ending of the Kashmir dispute, the disarming of Pakistan's nuclear weapons, women's rights and the expulsion of terrorist elements, putting an end to Al Qaeda safe havens in Pakistan.

Killing the civilians in order to get one or a few bad guys could be worth it or it won't be. We aren't in a position to judge which lives are worth more than others.

[Condottiere 40K]

Afghanistan obviously needs more fridges.

[justicar5]

Oh good, a reference to a book that was never actually published by the CIA, never part of the CIA's doctrine, never evidenced to have been delivered to the Contras by the CIA or used by the Contras (amazingly, some groups are able to perform crimes without CIA input, mindblowing I know) and whose author and those who illegally pushed and distributed it in the limited quantities it was seen in were investigated and in most cases punished, albeit not enough IMO.

Sooo aside from engaging in an argument heavy on conspiracy and bull- and mostly devoid from facts, mind telling the rest of us how this minor event in 1983 is at all related to the phenomenon of American citizens leaving the country and then joining with terrorist organizations who are at war with the United States? What's that? It doesn't! Wait, what justicar? Speak up boy! Oh, you're just desperately trying to attack the United States for something no matter how irrelevant it is to the conversation at hand? Well I'll be, we've never seen that before! Here's a pat on the head, now go on you scoundrel!

Have the people responsible for arming, encouraging and supporting the Contras in their slaughter of civilians been tried? If not, then until and unless they are it remains relevant. Oliver North should be in the USDB, not on FOX news. It is akin to claiming 'what relevance does an event in 2001 have in seeking out AQ commanders' , except that it was a sustained campaign, included the US navy mining harbours in peace time, an ICJ ruling being ignored, and 10 times as many deaths. So in fact it is at least 10 times worse than the Talebans support for AQ. So unless you support the trials and imprisonment of those responsible for the Contras, you cannot condemn Al Qaeda and have to in fact support them, they are doing to you what you did to others, and turn about has to be fair play.

If you cannot see the relevance of your nations own terrorist atrocities in any conversation about terrorism you are far lass intelligent than I had come to believe.

How is supporting the Contras any different from supporting AQ?

[Rights of the Individual]

I don't have much of a problem with using drones on enemy combatants. War is war, and as long as the enemy continues its uses of IED's and hiding suicide bombers in groups of women and children, I see no problem using drones to exterminate them.

The issue is when the American public is okay with the President using drones on US citizens based on the decisions of a closed court and without due process. That's ing scary.