Tunisia PM to form new government

[Blaze86420]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/africa...528345786.html

I find that there is this huge problem with the secularists and leftists in not just Tunisia, but also Egypt; they are ridiculously unreasonable. They look for any excuse to protest against the government, and refuse to negotiate completely. It's preposterous; an opposition leader is assassinated and without any evidence tying it to the government they start accusing it of being behind the assassination.

In Egypt, you have the opposition refusing to negotiate and intentionally escalating tensions in the country in hope of dismantling the government under all the pressure. It's childish. The Muslim Brotherhood was elected DEMOCRATICALLY, El Nahda was as well, don't they think that they at least deserve a little bit more civility?

[Sir Pignans]

Well, I think honestly, this was never going to be a smooth transition, and let's face it, at the end of the day, this is a culture shock. These countries don't have great experience with democracy, at least, not in living memory if I recall correctly. It was always going to be like this, after fighting so long and hard for democracy, groups are going to be shocked and dismayed with the election results, regardless of who wins the election, whether that be Islamists of Secularists or Leftists. And having lived under oppressive regimes, they will jump to the worst immediately, regardless of whether it is the case or not.

I mean if the leader of the opposition in Egypt had been assassinated under Mubaraks rule, who would you have immediately expected? It will take time to adapt to the new political systems. Nothing happens over night.

[hellheaven1987]

The truth is that there are good amount of people support those opposition, so their voice can be loud. However, it is understandable why there are many support the left wing, as Islam would never help you to find a job or earn a bread.

It is French Revolution all over again - you think people care your democracy? No one would have energy to care that if they have no job and bread.

[Admiral Piett]

Why blame the secularists and leftists? It was their leader that got killed. Tbh, if it were in my country, I would rigorously oppose any non-secular faction. Then again, I don't live in the ME and the demographics are totally different.

[Blaze86420]

Why blame the secularists and leftists? It was their leader that got killed. Tbh, if it were in my country, I would rigorously oppose any non-secular faction. Then again, I don't live in the ME and the demographics are totally different.

What I'm saying is that they have no evidence that suggests the party had anything to do with the assassination, yet they're using this as some sort of pretext for protesting the government and demanding it's fall. It's stupid.

The El Nahda party, although moderate, is supported by Tunisian Salafists. And it probably was a radical Islamist who assassinated the guy. But is that any reason to blame the party itself? No. I'm not criticizing the secularists for opposing El Nahda, I'm criticizing them for encouraging unrest and capitalizing on this outrage to score political points.

EDIT: I supported the Muslim Brotherhood at one point, and I still do to some extent, but what Morsi did with the constitution is very wrong. I acknowledge that a constitution must represent all of society, and that includes secularists, liberals, and leftists. But they have an obligation to do what is best for this country, and escalating tensions and refusing to negotiate is not what it is best for the country. The Muslim Brotherhood was elected FFS, they want to overthrow them by revolution? Incredibly retarded.

[motiv-8]

Why blame the secularists and leftists? It was their leader that got killed.

These two things have nothing to do with each other. The secularists get all the cheerleading in the West because, hey, secular MUST be better than Islamist right? ISLAM! BOOGIE BOOGIE!

Problem is it's not true. There is nothing inherently good about the secularist parties in these countries, they have their standout leaders and rights advocates and intellectuals and virtuous crusaders and their -heads and their gangsters and their thugs and their hooligans like all the other parties, the only difference is they're all overlooked by the West while their counterparts in conservative factions are considered the norm. All the parties should be judged by their own merits, not because of rose-tinted pictures of what people imagine they must represent based on their own local or national politics.

Hell, I have an Egyptian teacher of Coptic descent who is a secularist and she engages in all kinds of wild conspiracy theories, her latest one is that the Muslim Brotherhood -- who's leadership, mind you, is overwhelmingly highly-educated technocrats, most of them with Western degrees -- is purposely sabotaging Egypt's education systems so that everyone will be ignorant and thus vote for them. Anecdotal? Yes, but watching al-Jazeera I can see that it's not at all uncommon.

Blaze, I think the clear problem with the MB is that they mastered the art of being in the opposition, of organizing a base and motivating people into political activism, but have no idea how to govern. It's understandable after decades of not being able to have ANY role in governing, but by the same token the chip they carry on their shoulder and they way they've had to go about things all that time have left them utterly unprepared to control the current situation.

The El Nahda party, although moderate, is supported by Tunisian Salafists.

By a portion of them, not all. Maybe even half of Tunisian Salafists are completely apolitical anyway (going by the name Salafiyya 'Ilmiyya), and the rest (Salafiyya Siasiyya) are divided among those who want control and those who are willing to work with Ennahda and even the liberals.

Btw I read like five minutes ago that Ennahda rejected the PM's proposal to form a caretaker government. They stated essentially that this juncture they believe Tunisia needs a political government. They're still trying to hammer out a coalition.

[King Gambrinus]

As someone mentioned before, a revolution is never going to be a smooth process. You only have to look at those in the West to see that. However, I fear the growing faction of Muslim "moderates" taking power are too conservative and want to take their countries back in time rather than forwards.

[DarthLazy]

As someone mentioned before, a revolution is never going to be a smooth process. You only have to look at those in the West to see that. However, I fear the growing faction of Muslim "moderates" taking power are too conservative and want to take their countries back in time rather than forwards.

You see after a while this gets boring , be more creative .

[Blaze86420]

As someone mentioned before, a revolution is never going to be a smooth process. You only have to look at those in the West to see that. However, I fear the growing faction of Muslim "moderates" taking power are too conservative and want to take their countries back in time rather than forwards.

...it's like you didn't even read the article, or any of the posts here.

[King Gambrinus]

I'm simply expressing my support for the secular factions and denouncing the Muslim democrats as anti-progressists. What is the problem with that?

[DarthLazy]

Reading the ing thread seems to be out of fashion these days .

[AqD]

They never want democracy or take the responsibility of governing by themselves. They want a government to solve their own problems, and apparently they simply have no skilled politician or bureaucracy for that.

The people will become more and more angry and intolerant, and the governemtn will become even more powerless and unpopular, democratic or not.


Coupled with global economic recession, I think they're already doomed, there is no hope for them unless some foreign country steps in.

[Blaze86420]

They never want democracy or take the responsibility of governing by themselves. They want a government to solve their own problems, and apparently they simply have no skilled politician or bureaucracy for that.

The people will become more and more angry and intolerant, and the governemtn will become even more powerless and unpopular, democratic or not.


Coupled with global economic recession, I think they're already doomed, there is no hope for them unless some foreign country steps in.

Never knew you could stack garbage up so neatly.

Tunisia has suffered under an incompetent kleptocracy for decades, and has certainly never experienced democracy. As motiv stated, the people in power right now have never governed previously, ever. How can you possibly expect them to fix the problems made over the course of decades in just two years? There is no need for any country to step in, it will just take time for the country to transition.

I'm simply expressing my support for the secular factions and denouncing the Muslim democrats as anti-progressists. What is the problem with that?

Again, it's like you didn't even read any of the posts. Stop using ideology as a basis for your opinions and look at the reality on the ground; El Nahda has done absolutely nothing to send the country backwards.

But they have done nothing much to improve it either. Freedom of press is still terrible in Tunisia and journalists are attacked all the time, the new press code hasn't been adopted yet. But you didn't know this, and that's exactly what I mean. Don't look at this from secularists-vs-islamists point of view, because neither of the two are perfect and they're both responsible for some pretty stupid .

[King Gambrinus]

Never knew you could stack garbage up so neatly.

Tunisia has suffered under an incompetent kleptocracy for decades, and has certainly never experienced democracy. As motiv stated, the people in power right now have never governed previously, ever. How can you possibly expect them to fix the problems made over the course of decades in just two years? There is no need for any country to step in, it will just take time for the country to transition.

Again, it's like you didn't even read any of the posts. Stop using ideology as a basis for your opinions and look at the reality on the ground; El Nahda has done absolutely nothing to send the country backwards.

But they have done nothing much to improve it either. Freedom of press is still terrible in Tunisia and journalists are attacked all the time, the new press code hasn't been adopted yet. But you didn't know this, and that's exactly what I mean. Don't look at this from secularists-vs-islamists point of view, because neither of the two are perfect and they're both responsible for some pretty stupid .

OK, let's all be nihilists instead.

[hellheaven1987]

Told the ten of thousands unemployed workers they would find their bread after ten years from now.

[Blaze86420]

I often contemplate the purpose of your presence hellheaven, I ruled out "to offer meaningful discussion" and "wit" long time ago.

[hellheaven1987]

I often contemplate the purpose of your presence hellheaven, I ruled out "to offer meaningful discussion" and "wit" long time ago.

I am not under an impression you want to start a meaningful discussion this time be honest; the problem of those opposition has been going on for past two years and we already discussed several times. Hence unless you have some new views I fail to see why a new thread is needed.

[frozenprince]

I'm pretty sure it's ""

Just going out on a limb here.

Edit: Oh an I almost forgot, to shout "US baaaad, bleeergh" in a more "witty" fashion, with of course a sarcastic smiley.

[motiv-8]

UHHH because this is a very new and significant development for Tunisia? Seriously do you EVER read the background facts of a topic?

[Blaze86420]

Yeah, an opposition leader got assassinated and the government might be dissolved. Nothing big enough for a discussion, carry on.