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    Default British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-21341766

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    NHS staff should face prosecution if they are not open and honest about mistakes, according to a public inquiry into failings at Stafford Hospital.

    Years of abuse and neglect at the hospital led to the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of patients.

    But inquiry chairman, Robert Francis QC, said the failings went right to the top of the health service.

    He made 290 recommendations, saying "fundamental change" was needed to prevent the public losing confidence.

    His report comes after the families of victims have voiced anger that no-one has been sufficiently punished for their roles.

    Senior managers were able to leave the trust with little sanction, while most doctors and nurses involved have escaped censure from their professional regulators.

    Responding in the House of Commons, Prime Minister David Cameron apologised to the families of patients.

    He said he was "truly sorry" for what happened at Stafford Hospital, which was "not just wrong, it was truly dreadful" and the government needed to "purge" a culture of complacency.

    Mr Cameron said a full response to the inquiry would follow next month, but he did immediately announce that a new post of chief inspector of hospitals would be created in the autumn.

    Previous investigations have already established in harrowing detail the abuse and neglect from 2005 to 2008.

    This inquiry looked at why the system did not prevent the problems or at the very lest detect them earlier.

    Continue reading the main story
    The Mid Staffs public inquiry

    The public inquiry is the fifth major investigation into what happened
    It has focused mainly on the commissioning, supervision and regulation of the trust from 2005 to 2009 - something campaigners felt had not been properly covered before
    It was chaired by Robert Francis QC, who also led the fourth major investigation
    It sat between November 2011 and December 2012 and cost £13m
    More than 160 witnesses appeared at the hearings and one million pages of evidence have been sifted through
    The final report contains 290 recommendations over nearly 1,800 pages.
    Stafford Hospital: Q&A
    Stafford Hospital: The victims
    In particular, it recommended:

    The merger of the regulation of care into one body - two are currently involved
    Senior managers to be given a code of conduct and the ability to disqualify them if they are not fit to hold such positions
    Hiding information about poor care to become a criminal offence as would failing to adhere to basic standards that lead to death or serious harm
    A statutory obligation on doctors and nurses for a duty of candour so they are open with patients about mistakes
    An increased focus on compassion in the recruitment, training and education of nurses, including an aptitude test for new recruits and regular checks of competence as is being rolled out for doctors
    'Remote'
    While it is well-known the trust management ignored patients' complaints, local GPs and MPs also failed to speak up for them, the inquiry said.

    The local primary care trust and regional health authority were too quick to trust the hospital's management and national regulators were not challenging enough.

    Meanwhile, the Royal College of Nursing was highlighted for not doing enough to support its members who were trying to raise concerns.

    The Department of Health was also criticised for being too "remote" and embarking on "counterproductive" reorganisations.

    The report said the failings created a culture where the patient was not put first.

    Continue reading the main story

    Start Quote

    This is a story of appalling and unnecessary suffering of hundreds of people”

    Robert Francis QC
    'I sat through the whole inquiry'
    But the inquiry said the change needed did not require further reform.

    Instead, it urged everyone from "porters and cleaners to the secretary of state" to work together to shift the culture and adopt a "zero tolerance" approach to poor care.

    Mr Francis said: "This is a story of appalling and unnecessary suffering of hundreds of people.

    "They were failed by a system which ignored the warning signs and put corporate self-interest and cost control ahead of patients and their safety."

    He said the public's trust in the NHS had been "betrayed" and a change of culture was needed to "make sure that patients come first".

    Target driven
    The "appalling" levels of care that led to needless deaths have already been well documented by a 2009 report by the Healthcare Commission and an independent inquiry in 2010, which was also chaired by Mr Francis.

    They both criticised the cost-cutting and target-chasing culture that had developed at the Mid Staffordshire Trust, which ran the hospital.

    Continue reading the main story
    Time to care?

    James Moore, who has left the NHS after working in A&E for 15 years, said reports of abuse made him "ashamed to be a nurse".

    He blamed poor management rather than nurses no longer caring.

    He drew parallels with being a waitress: "The restaurant gets busier, the waitress works harder and harder with the same resources and things start getting missed, she drops a meal here or there and people don't get their food on time and complaints are made".

    Instead of dealing with the workload he said managers made the problem worse: "They'll ask the waitress to fill out more forms to tick that she's done certain things, then the restaurant gets busier and busier and the nurse has more and more forms to fill out."

    NHS staff say they are 'penalised for caring'
    Stafford Hospital report timeline
    Receptionists were left to decide which patients to treat, inexperienced doctors were put in charge of critically ill patients and nurses were not trained how to use vital equipment.

    Cases have also been documented of patients left crying out for help because they did not get pain relief and food and drinks being left out of reach.

    Data shows there were between 400 and 1,200 more deaths than would have been expected between 2005 and 2008, although it is impossible to say all of these patients would have survived if they had received better treatment.

    Royal College of Nursing general secretary Peter Carter described it as a "powerful and monumental" report.

    He said: "We welcome moves for overarching standards which enshrine what patients deserve from the NHS and from those who work for it.

    "Appalling care cannot be tolerated and everything should be done to ensure that it does not happen again."

    But campaigner Julie Bailey who's mother, Bella, died in 2007 at Stafford Hospital prompting her to set up Cure the NHS, which had been instrumental in pushing for the public inquiry, called for resignations.

    "We've lost hundreds of lives in the NHS and we want accountability.

    "We owe that to our society and to the deaths and the respect of all the loved ones that we have lost.

    "We will go nowhere until we get accountability."

    Katherine Murphy, the chief executive of the Patients Association, said the report was a "watershed moment" for the health service.

    She said: "It is clear that he [Mr Francis] has understood some of the very real failings that patients and their families face day in and day out.

    "It is clear from the report that there is a lot of blame to go around for what happened in Stafford. Unfortunately too many people have escaped genuine accountability."


    In short, negligence and abuse caused numerous deaths over the course of many years in the Sheffield hospital, and in the investigation it is recommended that many other hospitals are also investigated, while recommending establishing better accountability within the NHS.

    It seems that these issues are common in many bureaucratic systems, and I can assume since the NHS is a national public service, that it also faces many of these problems, though because it is such an important institution it means that many face serious health risks at the hands of what is seemingly a system which does not investigate itself or put itself under the required scrutiny that is required in the medical world.

    I would hope that an issue like this causes some serious investigations in the NHS so that more people don't have to face health complications due to poor management of what is essentially a public service.
    Last edited by DimeBagHo; February 06, 2013 at 02:59 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    There should be resignations and possible prosecutions for this, the staff that did this and the management that allowed it to continue need to be held to account.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    That seems to be part of the problem, it seems, that there doesn't seem to be much internal investigation or criticism. Reminds me a lot of the Greek public sector, tbh.

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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    There is both internal investigation and external investigation, it has been debated in the main chambers of government and attracted attention all over the media, every level of government and is causing policy reform.

    Can really see you aren't from this country but if you can't read more into it might be wise to ask opinions before passing judgement. The NHS is definitely not perfect, bloated as it is, biggest employer in Europe and costing way more than its european counterparts but lets not build false criticism on tragedy extant.

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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    There is both internal investigation and external investigation, it has been debated in the main chambers of government and attracted attention all over the media, every level of government and is causing policy reform.

    Can really see you aren't from this country but if you can't read more into it might be wise to ask opinions before passing judgement. The NHS is definitely not perfect, bloated as it is, biggest employer in Europe and costing way more than its european counterparts but lets not build false criticism on tragedy extant.
    I thought you could tell I wasn't from your island from the fact that this is the first I heard of it or because I mixed up Sheffield with Stafford. But yes, I generally create threads for the purpose of discussion, meaning that now that you Britishers can discuss your health system, I can learn more about it.

    Can really tell you have no desire to actually help in that process though.

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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Good that the final inquiry was published today though none of it is anything we haven't heard of. Management do a substandard job and get promoted. I know it well.

    And it's Stafford Hospital, not Sheffield Hospital. I won't have the County of Yorkshire besmirched. Even South Yorkshire.
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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    People die in US hospitals all the time too. Sometimes from neglect, other times from Insurance companies refusing to pay.

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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    People die in US hospitals all the time too. Sometimes from neglect, other times from Insurance companies refusing to pay.
    Do tell. Can you name one hospital in the US where hundreds of patients have died from abuse and neglect?

    Data shows there were between 400 and 1,200 more deaths than would have been expected between 2005 and 2008, although it is impossible to say all of these patients would have survived if they had received better treatment.
    Up to 1200 dead in a four year period? Holy .

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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by DimeBagHo View Post
    Do tell. Can you name one hospital in the US where hundreds of patients have died from abuse and neglect?



    Up to 1200 dead in a four year period? Holy .
    I believe the second line is vital here: although it is impossible to say all of these patients would have survived if they had received better treatment.

    Although it is extremely shocking to hear of the neglect and potential abuse carried out at these hospitals, the idea that hundreds died solely due to neglect is extremely sensationalist. The real number of patients that actually died due to neglect will be impossible to ascertain, but it is likely many received sub-standard care that ultimately did not kill them.

    Indeed though the NHS does need a thorough investigation and hopefully charges will be brought against any found liable. It is clear far better inspections of care is urgently needed.

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    Big War Bird's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by MathiasOfAthens View Post
    People die in US hospitals all the time too. Sometimes from neglect, other times from Insurance companies refusing to pay.
    An insurance company "refusing to pay" typically happens after a patient has been treated and a hold harmless clause prevents doctors and hospitals billing the patient for what the insurer refuses to pay.

    In any case the situation in the NHS arose out of a system in which citizens have little legal recourse, something that certainly is not a problem in the USA.
    Last edited by Big War Bird; February 06, 2013 at 10:07 PM.
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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by Big War Bird View Post
    An insurance company "refusing to pay" typically happens after a patient has been treated.

    In any case the situation in the NHS arose out of a system in which citizens have little legal recourse, something that certainly is not a problem in the USA.
    Legal recourse is all well and good... when you have the money to afford it. Don't bring up state lawyers, everyone's aware that they are the worst available. All countries, including both the UK and the US, have hospitals that are below average and deliver sub-par service, but the UK atleast delivers its' services equally as far as wealth is concerned.

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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    This is what happens when hospitals are run by managers who are not medical professionals and they themselves are under pressure from central government to hit often unreachable targets and cut costs. From experience the vast majority of doctors and nurses care deeply for their patients and want to do nothing more than provide them with the healthcare they require, however in certain NHS trusts, like Mid Staffordshire, the drive to bring down costs and reach targets has meant that there are less medical professionals on the ground. The staff numbers at present were ideal for the NHS in the 1980s, but these days a growing elderly population who are living longer is compounding this issue. Combine this with pressure to bring down costs (and hiring staff is expensive) you end up with a dangerous staff to patient ratio and an adverse effect on care. What needs to happen, which this report has highlighted, is a move away from the demonstrably disastrous managerial focus on hitting targets and instead focus on ensuring that sufficient and high quality care is provided for patients.

    What I also found interesting was the report admonishing successive governments for constantly attempting to make changes and reforms to the NHS as this also tends to exasperate the issue and cause unnecessary chaos. I imagine Andrew Lansley and Jeremy shifted awkwardly when they read that part.

    edit - you might want to change the thread title, the report admitted that it was impossible to ascertain if the higher mortality rates were all related to failures in providing adequate healthcare.
    Last edited by Father Jack; February 06, 2013 at 07:14 PM.

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    Pielstick's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by Father Jack View Post
    This is what happens when hospitals are run by managers who are not medical professionals and they themselves are under pressure from central government to hit often unreachable targets and cut costs. From experience the vast majority of doctors and nurses care deeply for their patients and want to do nothing more than provide them with the healthcare they require, however in certain NHS trusts, like Mid Staffordshire, the drive to bring down costs and reach targets has meant that there are less medical professionals on the ground. The staff numbers at present were ideal for the NHS in the 1980s, but these days a growing elderly population who are living longer is compounding this issue. Combine this with pressure to bring down costs (and hiring staff is expensive) you end up with a dangerous staff to patient ratio and an adverse effect on care. What needs to happen, which this report has highlighted, is a move away from the demonstrably disastrous managerial focus on hitting targets and instead focus on ensuring that sufficient and high quality care is provided for patients.

    What I also found interesting was the report admonishing successive governments for constantly attempting to make changes and reforms to the NHS as this also tends to exasperate the issue and cause unnecessary chaos. I imagine Andrew Lansley and Jeremy shifted awkwardly when they read that part.

    edit - you might want to change the thread title, the report admitted that it was impossible to ascertain if the higher mortality rates were all related to failures in providing adequate healthcare.
    From what I understand the report puts the blame on everyone from ward staff right the way up to government level. You can blame a lot of management, but when you've got patients laying in their own soiled beds, drinking water from flower vases because they're so thirsty, not being given medication they've been prescribed.... that's solely down to the ward staff.

    I hope something good will come out of this other than the usual NHS being used as a political football.


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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by Pielstick View Post
    From what I understand the report puts the blame on everyone from ward staff right the way up to government level. You can blame a lot of management, but when you've got patients laying in their own soiled beds, drinking water from flower vases because they're so thirsty, not being given medication they've been prescribed.... that's solely down to the ward staff.

    I hope something good will come out of this other than the usual NHS being used as a political football.
    One thing that puzzles me is every time my family are in hospital I am there on a daily basis and I attend to their needs. I can understand some people don't have family so that isn't always possible but its hard to believe wards full of people didn't and that no one picked up on the fact that their family member wasn't being given water. I would have and my anger would have brought security, police and quite possibly national news.

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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    One thing that puzzles me is every time my family are in hospital I am there on a daily basis and I attend to their needs. I can understand some people don't have family so that isn't always possible but its hard to believe wards full of people didn't and that no one picked up on the fact that their family member wasn't being given water. I would have and my anger would have brought security, police and quite possibly national news.
    That is puzzling, you would think a patient would be raising hell to everybody they know. I suppose there are some people, especially amongst the elderly, who are truly alone.
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    Pielstick's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    One thing that puzzles me is every time my family are in hospital I am there on a daily basis and I attend to their needs. I can understand some people don't have family so that isn't always possible but its hard to believe wards full of people didn't and that no one picked up on the fact that their family member wasn't being given water. I would have and my anger would have brought security, police and quite possibly national news.
    Same here. My sister is a nurse and this morning explained to me how the system *should* work on a ward level. She says what happened here must have been a total breakdown of ward level management.

    I've little doubt this issue will turn into another political football and everyone will pour scorn on the trust management. I hope it isn't forgotten that there was also a failure on the part of ward staff in their most fundamental duty - to care for their patients.


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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by Denny Crane! View Post
    One thing that puzzles me is every time my family are in hospital I am there on a daily basis and I attend to their needs. I can understand some people don't have family so that isn't always possible but its hard to believe wards full of people didn't and that no one picked up on the fact that their family member wasn't being given water. I would have and my anger would have brought security, police and quite possibly national news.
    I find this odd as well. I know of this happening on occasion, but that normally results in the local MP getting involved and heads being knocked together. How this managed to go on for so long is what is concerning.

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    Pielstick's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    From what I can gather a lot of it was down to the single minded focus on meeting targets.

    Unfortunately a hospital isn't a factory and can't be run like a production line.


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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatsby View Post
    That is puzzling, you would think a patient would be raising hell to everybody they know. I suppose there are some people, especially amongst the elderly, who are truly alone.
    But again surely at least one relative would have/should have kicked up a fuss. And if a patient was so thirsty to drink water out of a plant vase? Well yes you'll have some without relatives but not all.

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    Default Re: British NHS caused hundreds of deaths through "abuse and neglect."

    Quote Originally Posted by Father Jack View Post
    This is what happens when hospitals are run by managers who are not medical professionals and they themselves are under pressure from central government to hit often unreachable targets and cut costs. From experience the vast majority of doctors and nurses care deeply for their patients and want to do nothing more than provide them with the healthcare they require, however in certain NHS trusts, like Mid Staffordshire, the drive to bring down costs and reach targets has meant that there are less medical professionals on the ground. The staff numbers at present were ideal for the NHS in the 1980s, but these days a growing elderly population who are living longer is compounding this issue. Combine this with pressure to bring down costs (and hiring staff is expensive) you end up with a dangerous staff to patient ratio and an adverse effect on care. What needs to happen, which this report has highlighted, is a move away from the demonstrably disastrous managerial focus on hitting targets and instead focus on ensuring that sufficient and high quality care is provided for patients.
    After working within NHS I totally agree.
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