Triarii are worthless (or The Romans are OP)

[eugenioso]

i hate triarii. i hate them so much. not because they are my worst enemy, not because they are great fighters, but because of how worthless they are. these were supposed to be the top tier roman units pre-marian reforms, but they are not worth it at all. first of all, they use spears, so bye bye good attack vs infantry and hello malus vs infantry. second, for being the best and most veteran units they are . barely 1 more defense skill than hastati and worse attack. third, no pilum, so no chance to weaken the enemy. fourth (my favorite), even though the game describes them fighting in the traditional phalanx formation (interlocking shields and pushing forward), they do no such thing, they just fight like a bunch of morons until i can flank whatever they are fighting and kill it. they dont even get the completely ahistorical phalanx that the greeks or macedonians get.

also, rome is totally OP. the basic roman unit is the hastati.

160 soldiers, 2 pila per soldier so that means they bring their own missile support, good (not great) defense skill and armor and attack, good morale, nice upkeep cost...

while the enemy gets the warband.

240 soldiers, horrible morale, peasant-level defense skill, practically no armor and a crappy spear, so again malus vs infantry and no bonus vs cavalry, plus a hefty upkeep.

or the iberian infantry.

basically the same as the hastati, except with worse armor, worse morale, a smaller shield and no pila.

even the hoplites come short, if only because they dont get pilum support. two pilum throws are enough to dent hoplite morale (and numbers) enough that a frontal charge can kill them. even Spartan Hoplites, the biggest badasses in the game, fall to the mighty pila shower and flank charge by 2 hastati, roughly the same time and cost of one spartan hoplite unit.

and as a big final you, after marian reforms you get to recruit tanks.

ok not tanks, but roman legionnaires, the most OP unit in gaming history.

massive armor, huge attack, great charge bonus, excellent morale, more powerful pila, and immunity to enemy fire even when not in testudo.

and dont get me started on the invincible urban cohorts. titans they are. gods of warfare.

the only time you get to say "oh im under attack" is when you start the civil war.

[Rexasaur]

We all know this. That's why we play other factions :/

[iLeeT_PeeP]

Try my mini mod out eugenioso.

It may give you a different feel.

What I did is take the games actual in game models and base units shield/armor values directly on their models and a written out equation I devised.

Complicated mathematics and a lot of numbers... But it worked out quite well.

Cheers...

Also if you want a real challenge don't play as Rome.

[diez]

Spearmen in rtw(not mods)are more or less just cavalry stoppers and nothing more...And so are the triarii...Roman Legionaries most uber unit???Have you ever faced Cataphracts before,sir?

[Sar1n]

Triarii are spearmen, that means denser formation and bonus against cavalry. They're the stoppers, able to hold the enemy in place regardless of type so principes or hastati can take them out from the flank.

[eugenioso]

just imagine if spartan hoplites suffered the Triarii treatment...

[Parzival2211]

Your complaint about useless Triarii doesn't seem to make sense in the context of your post on OP hastati.

So, would you have wanted Triarii to be even more OP swordfighters?

I, actually, was quite happy to gain access to Triarii after some turns as Scipii because Hastati and Principes don't do well against cav or Carthaginian elephants. I think they complement the strengths of the other Roman inf units.

Are the Romans OP? Sure, they are supposed to come out of the campaign victorious.

[nhinhonhinho]

Actually ppl don't use Triarii in vanilla much simply because when they get the barrack which can train them then several turns later they get the Marius Reform and the "traditional" Legionaries spam started. Another thing is Roman cavalry after Marius Reform in vanilla are very overpower so practically the Roman need no spearman at all.

Triarii's primary purpose for the Roman is to anti cavalry (and chariot I think). The do sight as the only good spearman for the Roman (they're better than auxilia).

In various mods however these problem solved.

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Yeah, ive never really had the chance to use Triarii, like one turn later you get the Marian Reforms and its LEGION TIME!

If its any consolation, to my understanding of Rome, the Triarii were basically like that. Spearmen and not swordsmen. Im no scholor of Roman military history, but I'll also say...third line veterans. Go to the triarii....

Doesnt sound like they were the truly elite, as in the ultimate badass, but elite in knowing whats what, and training other soldiers. I mean, that crusty old drill sergeant at the military base is a true veteran, hes seen everything. Hes been knee deep in the ****

Now do you want him on the front lines?

But as I said, not a scholor by anymeans, and im more into the dark ages and middle ages

[General Nuisance esq]

Triarri and archers are the only pre marion units that I would use online, personally I love these dudes for the early stages of a campaign too, real general killers

[shikaka]

I think warband is not really worthless. It is much better what romans get at the same level (town watch), with a well-timed warcry they can win against hastati.

[Ngazi]

Warband are not bad. They are as fast as skirmishers but just tire out more quickly.

[Ruprecht]

Romans OP hah! - Annoying ? ... yes. OP ? ... not even close.

You clearly haven't played a Seleucid campaign.

[Republic Empire]

I found the triarii to be very useful shock troops against cavalry and make a rear or flank attacks. I generally use them in battle to protect the near flanks and the rear. I normally keep them in reserve until needed it.