Which theories do you subscribe to? (Spoilers, obviously)

[ggggtotalwarrior]

Saw this on asoiaf.westeros.org
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...-subscribe-to/
I do believe:
Robert Strong= Gregor Clegane
Hound- Gravedigger, and may return to kill his brother's zombie
Jaime kills Cersei
Coldhands is Benjen
Jaqen is Pate
Rhaegar and Lyanna are Jon Snow's parents
Sansa is the younger, more beautiful queen
Bloodraven is the 3-Eyed Crow and wargs into Mormont's raven
Jon Snow,Dany, Aegon/Tyrion (if Aegon isn't real. I'm on the fence on that one)= AA/PTWP
Hooded dude in Winterfell may be Blackfish

Don't Believe=
Syrio is alive
Ashara and Ned
(some others, aswell, too numerous to type )

Wish these were true:

Patchface will play some important role
Littlefinger is PTWP

[The Forgotten]

Coldhands isn't Benjen I know that for sure. My only other reasonable guess would be the Night King or someother legend from the Heros age.

I figured the 3 eyed crow was Bloodraven but I never thought he warged into Mormonts Raven. That is actually a really good theory.

Also I saw this one on another forum. Patchface is decended from Aerion Brightflame.

[Archon Patriarch]

Coldhands isn't Benjen I know that for sure. My only other reasonable guess would be the Night King or someother legend from the Heros age.

I figured the 3 eyed crow was Bloodraven but I never thought he warged into Mormonts Raven. That is actually a really good theory.

Also I saw this one on another forum. Patchface is decended from Aerion Brightflame.

Yes to the last part.

I don't put much stock in his "Prophecies" what are they again, read some of his dialogue didn't see much worth. Probably has a larger part to play.

Coldhands, why jump from one end of the spectrum to the other? If it was someone ancient surely there would be an earlier sighting or mention of him ? No. It is someone from the span of the books / around that time. The oldest living character is after all fused with a tree and a meagre 100 (ish) years. I forget the exact numbers.

[Mount Suribachi]

Hooded dude in Winterfell may be Blackfish

He got there very quickly if so. Through hostile lands and deep winter snows? I don't think so.

[Archon Patriarch]

Saw this on asoiaf.westeros.org
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php...-subscribe-to/
I do believe:
Robert Strong= Gregor Clegane
Hound- Gravedigger, and may return to kill his brother's zombie
Jaime kills Cersei
Coldhands is Benjen
Jaqen is Pate
Rhaegar and Lyanna are Jon Snow's parents
Sansa is the younger, more beautiful queen
Bloodraven is the 3-Eyed Crow and wargs into Mormont's raven
Jon Snow,Dany, Aegon/Tyrion (if Aegon isn't real. I'm on the fence on that one)= AA/PTWP
Hooded dude in Winterfell may be Blackfish

Don't Believe=
Syrio is alive
Ashara and Ned
(some others, aswell, too numerous to type )

Wish these were true:

Patchface will play some important role
Littlefinger is PTWP

Don't believe Coldhands is Benjen, 50/50 if it isn't him it'll be a random guy like Royce (Remember him from all the way back in book one mwaha?)

I don't think BR warged Mormonts raven. It makes no sense. I believe MORMONT is a warg - Lots of evidence to support that! Just think about it. Seems almost impossible BR wargs it.

Hooded dude is unlikely to be BF, he knows nothing about the North. Nor to his knowledge would he find friends their, like Davos. He'll either go to the BWB, after Edmure, vale or he has (And this is crack pot) jeyne westerling with him to keep safe.

It is a faceless man - is it Jagen? Maybe, seems like it might not be, what with timings. Unless he is in two places at once. There are of course other FM


Jaime WILL kill Cersei, I didn't know it was a theory. Or Stannis. That'd be nice but less gloriously ironic.


Robert strong's identity isn't a theory I thought it was one of the more obvious things unless there are other 8 foot tall men running about? No. Him it is, resurrected.

Sandor is alive I like to believe and he'll be the 7's champion against his own brother and in giving up his ambition to kill his brother for the 7 the 7 will get him to do just that. Piety and reward, eh?


I'll wait for conformation on Jon. Not that his lineage will change anything.

Stannis is PTWP. durr.

[Mount Suribachi]

I don't think BR warged Mormonts raven. It makes no sense. I believe MORMONT is a warg - Lots of evidence to support that! Just think about it. Seems almost impossible BR wargs it.

I can't tell if you're serious or not, especially with the 2nd part, but it makes COMPLETE sense for BR to be warging the Raven - its how he keeps in touch with what going on in the NW. And I think Mormont suspects something too, otherwise why would he put up with the bird? Not to mention the bird tells Jon to burn the wights, gets Jon elected as Lord Commander, crosses the wall to watch Jon's meeting with the Wildings etc etc

[Prophet1331]

I can't tell if you're serious or not, especially with the 2nd part, but it makes COMPLETE sense for BR to be warging the Raven - its how he keeps in touch with what going on in the NW. And I think Mormont suspects something too, otherwise why would he put up with the bird? Not to mention the bird tells Jon to burn the wights, gets Jon elected as Lord Commander, crosses the wall to watch Jon's meeting with the Wildings etc etc

Considering all of these it makes sense. However isn't there a possibility that BR is warging into some creature close to Mance too? If it is helping the NW why wouldn't it help the wildlings survive too?

Also I'm starting to believe the "Aegon is a Blackfyre" theory more and more.

[Archon Patriarch]

I can't tell if you're serious or not, especially with the 2nd part, but it makes COMPLETE sense for BR to be warging the Raven - its how he keeps in touch with what going on in the NW. And I think Mormont suspects something too, otherwise why would he put up with the bird? Not to mention the bird tells Jon to burn the wights, gets Jon elected as Lord Commander, crosses the wall to watch Jon's meeting with the Wildings etc etc

...All of those things are more to Mormonts liking than BR's, what's Br's gain in that? Not much. Why would Mormont keep it around, because he wargs it. If Br warged it, surely he'd need some form of contact, when would that be achieved - at least for the first time? Also Mormont talks about having dreams where he is a raven looking north of the wall etc. Sounds like a green dream to me. Adding to this his family are know for being wargs. A part of the warg is left over in the the creature they warg so it makes sense to be Mormont over BR imo. He wants Bran for his ability, he evidently doesn't seem to care for anyone else, least of all a random stark bastard - he makes no reference to NW events as I recall.

The evidence for Mormont being the warg of this particular bird is pretty great. Not saying Br isn't a good warg but there are other ways he could keep an eye on the wall, doesn't seem as much evidence to me. especially in the motive.

[Mount Suribachi]

...All of those things are more to Mormonts liking than BR's, what's Br's gain in that?

As I said, to keep an eye on what is going on inside the NW. The Raven is always with Mormont, thus BR knows everything that goes on in Mormonts private councils

Not much. Why would Mormont keep it around, because he wargs it. If Br warged it, surely he'd need some form of contact, when would that be achieved - at least for the first time?

Why would he need contact? He can just reach out with his warg skills and take over. I think there's also a reference to the bird being old, or being around a long time, possibly even from BR's time in the NW, although I admit that is a reach.

Also Mormont talks about having dreams where he is a raven looking north of the wall etc. Sounds like a green dream to me. Adding to this his family are know for being wargs. A part of the warg is left over in the the creature they warg so it makes sense to be Mormont over BR imo

.

The Mormonts may be wargs, or at the least have greendreams, but answer me this - Why would Mormont warg the Raven when he is being attacked by a wight so the raven can shout "FIRE! BURN!" when he can just go "Jon, burn it!"

He wants Bran for his ability, he evidently doesn't seem to care for anyone else, least of all a random stark bastard - he makes no reference to NW events as I recall.

Why does he want Bran? Yes, for his power, but why does he need Bran's power? To fight what is in the north of the Lands of Always Winter, because that is when the 3EC tells Bran now you know why you must live. The obvious answer is to defeat The Great Other, and that is what BR, the COTF are working towards (unless you go for a crackpot contrary theory ) Bran was marked out 200 years before he was born as a great and powerful warg, its pretty obvious (to me anyway) that BR is training Bran up to be his replacement - the dude is 150 years old and he pretty much admits he ain't got long left.

The evidence for Mormont being the warg of this particular bird is pretty great. Not saying Br isn't a good warg but there are other ways he could keep an eye on the wall, doesn't seem as much evidence to me. especially in the motive.

The motive is, as above, to help the NW defeat The Others. And as I said above, how else, or how better, could BR keep an eye on the NW than having his own eyes and ears with Mormont at all times?

But to turn your own questions back on you, what is Mormonts gain in having a raven he could warg, except it never leaves his side?

[Archon Patriarch]

As I said, to keep an eye on what is going on inside the NW. The Raven is always with Mormont, thus BR knows everything that goes on in Mormonts private councils



Why would he need contact? He can just reach out with his warg skills and take over. I think there's also a reference to the bird being old, or being around a long time, possibly even from BR's time in the NW, although I admit that is a reach.

.

The Mormonts may be wargs, or at the least have greendreams, but answer me this - Why would Mormont warg the Raven when he is being attacked by a wight so the raven can shout "FIRE! BURN!" when he can just go "Jon, burn it!"



Why does he want Bran? Yes, for his power, but why does he need Bran's power? To fight what is in the north of the Lands of Always Winter, because that is when the 3EC tells Bran now you know why you must live. The obvious answer is to defeat The Great Other, and that is what BR, the COTF are working towards (unless you go for a crackpot contrary theory ) Bran was marked out 200 years before he was born as a great and powerful warg, its pretty obvious (to me anyway) that BR is training Bran up to be his replacement - the dude is 150 years old and he pretty much admits he ain't got long left.



The motive is, as above, to help the NW defeat The Others. And as I said above, how else, or how better, could BR keep an eye on the NW than having his own eyes and ears with Mormont at all times?

But to turn your own questions back on you, what is Mormonts gain in having a raven he could warg, except it never leaves his side?

Welll....I don't know if that's right. No other character has just "Reached out", nor has it been mentioned as such. If anything being close seems like a requirement - at least at first. There might be a reference to the bird being around a long time...But that could be long as say Jeor, the long life caused by his warging to Jeor or Br which doesn't prove anything unless we are told which.

I didn't say he did he did do that, I wasn't aware the raven did. They are smart beats even unwarged but, like the warged Direwolves, even unwarged are privvy so it could just be aware. Good point for you but still not definite.


Bran is clearly his replacement. BUT we can't know it was so far back preplanned like you state is obvious. I don't see the relevance of wanting Bran. He does want Bran, evidently for his power/abilites. But further than that we cannot know. He doesn't however ever reference the NW in his time in person.


The Motive is, most likely, to defeat the others. This helps the NW but doesn't mean anything further than the enemy of my enemy is my friend because he is also on the side of all Humans, evidently. His eyes and ears seem pretty pointless. He warned of the fire weakness but not of the Fist of the first men catastrophy or any other advice expect saying fire one time?...Yeaaaahhh seems a tad weak to me.


Adding to this to turn my question on me : Why wouldn't his warg be close? All wargs (Apart from Arya and Orell - I think it is) keep their warged creatures generally closed. Apart from Ghosts occasional roaming. They all stay near their master even the wildling ones. HOWEVER there is evidence that the Raven does fly far, the dreams Jeor reports having seem remarkably like Brans when he is first warging summer. It is mostly likely because he is warging. Finally, in Leiu of forgetting my last point. Mormont doesn't have to have a "Gain" from it. It's just a creature he's warged and formed a bond with , so he keeps it around. If it was BR's creature surely there wouldn't even be that bond or reason for the large disdain for it if he keeps it around. He regularly talks about not liking it, why would he keep it if only for BR's value? It makes little sense for him to bother.

[Gallus]

Robert Strong= Gregor Clegane
Hound = Gravedigger
Jaime kills Cersei
R+L=J
Dany, Jon and Tyrion are 3 aspects of Azor Ahai reborn

[zburanuki]

tyrion is azor ahai reborn? since when?

[ccllnply]

tyrion is azor ahai reborn? since when?

Since people started getting bored between books and just decided that any old crap deserves a theory.

"duh, Anders Yronwood is a secret Blackfyre! I mean, no one has actually stated he's not a Blackfyre, all the evidence is there!"

[RLuke07]

Since people started getting bored between books and just decided that any old crap deserves a theory.

"duh, Anders Yronwood is a secret Blackfyre! I mean, no one has actually stated he's not a Blackfyre, all the evidence is there!"

Ha! Although I agree this is what I love about these books, Martin has created this world where anything can be possible but I find myself getting lose in some theories to be honest. Heck I was pretty pleased with myself when I found out that Randyll Tarly was Sam's Dad!

[Mount Suribachi]

Heck I was pretty pleased with myself when I found out that Randyll Tarly was Sam's Dad!

Har! I never realised that myself till my re-read!

[ggggtotalwarrior]

I don't know about that. Why would Varys practically confirm that he's real to Kevan when he has no reason to lie to a man he's about to kill?

If he is Blackfyre, I then believe Tyrion is the 3rd head of the dragon.

[Prophet1331]

Well I'm not sure Vary confirmed he was a Targaryen.

The quote was

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

"Aegon has been shaped for rule before he could walk. He has been trained in arms, as befits a knight to be, but that was not the end of his education. He reads and writes, he speaks several tongues, he has studied history and law and poetry. A septa has instructed him in the mysteries of the Faith since he was old enough to understand them. He has lived with fisherfolk, worked with his hands, swum in rivers and mended nets and learned to wash his own clothes at need. He can fish and cook and bind up a wound, he knows what it is like to be hungry, to be hunted, to be afraid. Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. Aegon knows kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them".

Basically the theory is based on:

1. The fact that it was repeatedly stated that the Blackfyre male line died out, nothing being stated about the female line. And of such it is speculated that Iliryo married one Blackfyre girl and their son is Aegon.

2. You have the warning Dany received about the "false dragon" or "mummer's dragon" (I don't remember exactly how it went).

3. The fact that the Golden Company (founded by a Blackfyre supporter) is supporting him while they laughed at Viserys when he came seeking their help.

4. Varys whispering into Aerys' ear making him paranoid and eventually making him lose his throne and then going on with his activities during Robert's reign preparing the stage for Aegon whilst giving information about the Targaryen children to Robert.


Also there is the conversation between Iliryo and Tyrion on the road to Aegon when Iliryo says about the breacking of the GC's contract that "Some contracts are written in ink and others in blood" (we know that GC was founded by exiles that supported the Blackfyres during their rebellion). He also states that "Black or Red a dragon is still a dragon" which kind of works against the theory but at the same time it can be understood that the Blackfyres have just as good a claim to the throne as the Targaryens have.

And it would fit in to why the GC commanders knew of Aegon's true identity when they meet. They were told in advance that he was a Blackfyre to secure their support. Griff, and the rest of the group could be oblivious of Aegon's true origins, perhaps even Aegon doesn't know. I think Griff says at one point that Aegon's eyes were of a different color than his father's.

And recently I found an interesting connection made by a guy on reddit, between the Blackfyres and septon Meribald

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I was rereading A Feast for Crows and found a passage that seems to foreshadow Aegon's appearance in ADwD, specifically supporting the Blackfyre angle. In Brienne 7, Septon Meribald explains the history of "The Old Inn:"

"...He forged a new sign for the yard, a three-headed dragon of black iron that he hung from a wooden post. The beast was so big it had to be made in a dozen pieces, joined with rope and wire. When the wind blew it would clank and clatter, so the inn became known far and wide as the Clanking Dragon."

"Is the dragon sign still there?" asked Podrick.

"No," said Septon Meribald. "When the smith's son was an old man, a bastard son of the fourth Aegon rose up in rebellion against his trueborn brother and took for his sigil a black dragon. These lands belonged to Lord Darry then, and his lordship was fiercely loyal to the king. The sign of the black iron dragon made him wroth, so he cut down the post, hacked the sign to pieces, and cast them into the river. One of the dragon's heads washed up on the Quiet Isle many years later, though by that time it was red with rust."

Targaryens use a red dragon as their sigil; a black dragon is the sigil of house Blackfyre. After their defeat, the Blackfyres were diminished in number and forced across the narrow sea ("[he] hacked the [black dragon] to pieces, and cast them into the river"). Could this passage foreshadow the reappearance of a Blackfyre heir ("one of the dragon's heads") on Westeros's Western shore, whom - given the amount of time since Blackfyres were defeated - everyone takes for a Targaryen instead ("by that time it was red with rust")?

And the Blackfyres were still Targaryens in blood. I think there was a Blackfyre in the Dunk & Egg stories who had the ability to have visions in his dreams (I might be mistaken though). So it would be possible for one of the heads of the dragon to be a Blackfyre (unlikely but would make for an interesting turn of events).

[ggggtotalwarrior]

"Mummer's Dragon"= Varys' Dragon.

It doesn't necessarily mean a fake dragon, due to Varys' backstory.

I don't know why, but I just really have a scepticism to the whole Blackfyre theory.

I am like 99% sure on most of the other theories, though.

I don't get everyone doubting Benjen is Coldhands. I know the CotF say he died long ago, but they could be saying that in terms relative to Bran, not themselves. Plus, the theory he is the Night King doesn't work for me. The Night King, based on the stories we've heard wasn't a very good guy, to say the least.

Why would he be helping the 3-Eyed Crow?

[The Forgotten]

"Mummer's Dragon"= Varys' Dragon.

It doesn't necessarily mean a fake dragon, due to Varys' backstory.

I don't know why, but I just really have a scepticism to the whole Blackfyre theory.

I am like 99% sure on most of the other theories, though.

I don't get everyone doubting Benjen is Coldhands. I know the CotF say he died long ago, but they could be saying that in terms relative to Bran, not themselves. Plus, the theory he is the Night King doesn't work for me. The Night King, based on the stories we've heard wasn't a very good guy, to say the least.

Why would he be helping the 3-Eyed Crow?

Benjen only died, what? 4 years ago? That was probably less than a years off of Neds own death. Even with humans that is not soo long. The CotF who said it was around 200 years old. So I would say anyone who was born after the conquest is eliminated. Coldhands is also for sure a Brother of the Nights Watch. So just through process of elimination we can suspect that if Coldhands is someone that the readers already know of (Just how the 3 eyed crow is Bloodraven), then he is probably the NK. I would guess he was forced to serve the Greenseers as a penance or punishment for what he did.

I am really starting to believe that Aegon is a Blackfyre. Even more so now that some have pointed out how he is possibly the son of Illyrio. It would make a lot more sense as to why he is so interested in the affairs of Westeros and why he supports the Targs.

[Mount Suribachi]

I am really starting to believe that Aegon is a Blackfyre. Even more so now that some have pointed out how he is possibly the son of Illyrio. It would make a lot more sense as to why he is so interested in the affairs of Westeros and why he supports the Targs.

Yeah, that's what makes me wonder too (I think Tyrion wonders the same without forming the thoughts to their logical conclusion) ie why would this rich, fat, ruthless businessman be so interested in restoring the Targaryens to Westeros? Why would Varys betray the Targaryens, only to work so hard to restore them?

If he is Blackfyre, I then believe Tyrion is the 3rd head of the dragon.

If he is though, why does Quaithe tell Dany? Unless of course its to do with the 2nd Dance of the Dragons as foreshadowed in the Arianne preview chapter.

Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them.