Why has it become so difficult to mod the campaign?

**peaceandwar** · February 03, 2013, 05:10 PM

Im just wondering. Before empire we could make new make new maps, new factions, and even replace soldiers with giant spiders and mythical beasts. None of this seems to be possible anymore, and i was just wondering, whats changed? And how close are we to making a breakthrough in any of the above three, or might not that even be possible without tools from CA?

**Chris Death** · February 04, 2013, 07:55 AM

This thread might get moved as it seems not to fit into RTW general forum but here goes;

As far as i know CA already released the mod tools for S2TW and with those almost everything
should have become possible.

Not sure because i never got into S2TW (placeholder on my harddisc) but they might be
available at the S2TW workshop; http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1572

~S~ CD

**shikaka** · February 07, 2013, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by peaceandwar

Im just wondering. Before empire we could make new make new maps, new factions, and even replace soldiers with giant spiders and mythical beasts. None of this seems to be possible anymore, and i was just wondering, whats changed? And how close are we to making a breakthrough in any of the above three, or might not that even be possible without tools from CA?

Basically a design decision by CA (or SEGA).
A developer must put extra effort to keep their software in easily accessable and moddable format. Definietly extra work hours for them, and judging how Empire looked when it was released, they didn't have any extra work hours to even do the bug fixing.

Also, some companies don't like mods to their games in general, as they are afraid it decreases sales for future releases.

Originally Posted by Chris Death

This thread might get moved as it seems not to fit into RTW general forum but here goes;

As far as i know CA already released the mod tools for S2TW and with those almost everything
should have become possible.

Not sure because i never got into S2TW (placeholder on my harddisc) but they might be
available at the S2TW workshop; http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1572

~S~ CD

The problem is that lots of modders left the Total War franchise a long ago.
This step is very late.

**gaunty14** · February 04, 2013, 09:53 AM

Remember that Med2 came out in 2006 and RTW came out in 2004 and were done on a much simpler engine using text files. It takes time to work out the inner workings of new game engine especially as CA weren't very helpful prior to STW2. Modders are getting there slowly but surely. The Great War mod for NTW has tanks in it for example!

**ChrisG** · February 06, 2013, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by gaunty14

Remember that Med2 came out in 2006 and RTW came out in 2004 and were done on a much simpler engine using text files. It takes time to work out the inner workings of new game engine especially as CA weren't very helpful prior to STW2. Modders are getting there slowly but surely. The Great War mod for NTW has tanks in it for example!

Sorry for the off topic.
Is there any video of these tanks?? I would really like to see them in action.

**gaunty14** · February 06, 2013, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by ChrisG

Sorry for the off topic.
Is there any video of these tanks?? I would really like to see them in action.

Check the previews, should be a few there, or youtube

**Shea O'Gorath** · February 04, 2013, 11:29 AM

The Warscape engine completely turn over the way the map was drawn and how the engine delt with mods. Data is built into the map which makes it near impossible to mod.

The tools that were released while doing the job are incredibly complex and the building of a new map is still very very hard.

**Lord Baal** · February 04, 2013, 12:03 PM

People can rationalize it as whatever they want. But in the end it was a design decision, period. You can make a game as complicated and you want and still make it highly modifiable by users. There are plenty of examples in our current market.

As for the why of this decision, I can only wonder if it's in order to sell more DLC, taking advantage of the void of variety the lack of modding produces. But meh...

**AngryTitusPullo** · February 05, 2013, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Baal

People can rationalize it as whatever they want. But in the end it was a design decision, period. You can make a game as complicated and you want and still make it highly modifiable by users. There are plenty of examples in our current market.

As for the why of this decision, I can only wonder if it's in order to sell more DLC, taking advantage of the void of variety the lack of modding produces. But meh...

Shogun 2 is highly modifiable with the release of Assembly Kit.

The problem is there are now many mod users who cried there's no LOTR mods for Shogun 2 instead of actually take an attempt to learn how to mod.

People said that RTW/Med2 is easy to mod but if one does not know how to use 3dsMax themselves they they're still stuck with text base modding which for ETW-NTW can easily be done with PFM.

If CA/SEGA really want to disallow mods they can simply just hardcoded everything.

**ray243** · February 06, 2013, 05:50 AM

Originally Posted by peaceandwar

Im just wondering. Before empire we could make new make new maps, new factions, and even replace soldiers with giant spiders and mythical beasts. None of this seems to be possible anymore, and i was just wondering, whats changed? And how close are we to making a breakthrough in any of the above three, or might not that even be possible without tools from CA?

New game engine that takes up too much space. This result in CA building the game engine in a manner that simply isn't friendly for modding.

Originally Posted by LestaT

Shogun 2 is highly modifiable with the release of Assembly Kit.

The problem is there are now many mod users who cried there's no LOTR mods for Shogun 2 instead of actually take an attempt to learn how to mod.

Not possible. the campaign map is nearly unmoddable without more advanced modding tools. As of now, it would literally take months just to add a new province into the campaign map.

Without the ability to mod a campaign map easily, full conversion mod simply isn't feasible.

**AngryTitusPullo** · February 06, 2013, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by ray243

Not possible. the campaign map is nearly unmoddable without more advanced modding tools. As of now, it would literally take months just to add a new province into the campaign map.

Without the ability to mod a campaign map easily, full conversion mod simply isn't feasible.

What ? Have you actually tried it yourself ?

**AngryTitusPullo** · February 06, 2013, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Baal

LestaT there's a ton of things that can be done, granted, but still there's a ton of thing that can't be done too. Relatively simple things like tying a settlement to a position on the campaign map has become impossible to do. Not to mention that is up until now, after two past releases under warscape, that they look upon the issue of modding.

No matter how you look at it, be it a direct or indirect consequence, it doesn't matter, modding has become (unnecessarily) harder by design.

When I started to mod Rome years ago I started with things that can be done, moving on to what lese can be done and leaving those that can't be done.

Look. I've been modding Rome for years but I can't until now create new units because I myself never learn to use 3dsmax or even the graphic stuff. Did I cry saying that Rome is unmoddable because on my own ignorance ? No.

**peaceandwar** · February 05, 2013, 03:16 PM

The great war has tanks? I didnt know that.
Thanks for your answers everyone. I didnt aware that there were proper tools for s2 either, but i dont follow that game at all, so i wouldnt.

did i put this in the wrong category? sorry about that.

if there are tanks in the great war, do you think it may be possible to make planes do air strikes?

i miss the days where we could create fantasy worlds with weird things fighting for us. Oh well, maybe one day will will figure it all out.

**Lord Baal** · February 06, 2013, 06:17 AM

LestaT there's a ton of things that can be done, granted, but still there's a ton of thing that can't be done too. Relatively simple things like tying a settlement to a position on the campaign map has become impossible to do. Not to mention that is up until now, after two past releases under warscape, that they look upon the issue of modding.

No matter how you look at it, be it a direct or indirect consequence, it doesn't matter, modding has become (unnecessarily) harder by design.

**Shea O'Gorath** · February 07, 2013, 03:21 PM

It is understandable though. Data has become more and more complex and that is fact. All games not just total war has become harder to mod.

The Elder Scrolls are a unique case in that they are made to be modable. But this isnt out of a love for your player base. Bethesda openly admits that mods can and are taken and improved to be used for dlc. Just look at fallout:NV. It is a mash of popular mods for fallout 3.

The assembly kit shows us that they have no desire to kill modding but Warscape is a very complex engine.

**peaceandwar** · February 15, 2013, 04:56 PM

Thanks for all your replies guys. So it looks like we still have a pretty long way to go before we can make campaign maps for the newer total war titles. Oh well, the darthmod is still epic. But i would really love a full world map. That would be amazing. Hopefully we will get there eventually.