EDU changes (RELEASED)

[Emperor Hantscher]

Release notes(please read):

If anyone read about this back in February I am so sorry, I actually thought I released it then(facepalm!) well better late then never

To Install:

1. Download the attached notepad files at the bottom of the post

2. MAKE A BACKUP OF descr_mount AND export_descr_units from the mods "data" folder!!! I cannot stress that enough. This is untested and I cannot guarantee they will work with your current set-up. It should work, but I do not want to be responsible for someone having to re-install the mod. Plus you might hate the new EDU so it's up to you.

3. Paste the files in your MII/mods/hyrule/data folder, overwrite the existing files and your done.

Further notes:

No it is not save game compatible. If you have a campaign going your units will not all of the sudden change. You will need to start a new campaign for the changes to take effect. However custom battles will have the new EDU and you can still play your old campaign without any problems or CTD, so really you have nothing to lose.....as long as you back-up the old files

Please give me some feedback so I can make further adjustments. I have only tested each faction in Custom battle mode. The only faction I played in campaign was Hyrule. Those who are not available in CB mode, Tokay, Horon, Subrosia etc. were altered blindly and have not been tested. That should not be too big an issue though since all the EDU numbers are pretty well structured.

DOWNLOADS:
descr_mount.txt export_descr_unit.txt HAVE FUN!

INTRO: I just wanted to say I love this mod, it's great! I downloaded it earlier last week and I can't stop playing. What i did is played my first campaign as the Kingdom of Hyrule and things did not turn out well. I noticed that there are a few things that needed to be changed in the EDU to make the battles a little more "realistic". The purpose of the list below is for the developers to look at and maybe use it as reference for the next release. Also if people want I can maybe release it as a submod. EDIT: Looks like I did

Universal Changes

• All of the physically small units are now exactly that, unit mass has been lowered in proportion to (1) being the weight of an unarmored Human.
• General's/Hero's Bodyguard units have a higher Defensive Skill than there regular counterparts. This is to represent the fact that these units would use the best soldiers available to protect their General/Hero and would receive a higher level of training than army regulars.
• Horse are now heavier and had charge values elevated. They are now alot less useless. And can now charge right through some of the Physically small units
• Armor Values have been increased as I saw fit to reflect how heavily armored a unit looks in game. Using the Hylians as the base armor values other units were changed to however more or less armored they are than the Hylians.

Significant Factional Changes

Hyrule

• Along with the changes to their Cavalry, all unit weights have been increased slightly to reflect the added weight of full plate armor.
• Armor values have also been increased, all Hylian units are slightly harder to kill.
• Hylians Carrying a shield have had shield values increased slightly aswell
• Bottom Line: The Hylians are now a stronger faction. They can handle much more abuse but are still vulnerable to cavalry and heavier infantry.

Goron

• Charge values have been doubled for all units.
• Weights have also been tweaked. Gorons that are slightly armored of carrying a weapon are a little heavier.
• Bottom Line: Gorons are arguably the strongest faction, as they should be. They are still capable of literaly bowling right through an enemy army but this time they will inflict more casualties in there initial charge.

Kokiri

• Kokiri are now half the weight of an unarmored human unit
• They are now extemely vulnereable to cavalry charges
• Mudmen of Faron are still very effective against cavalry
• Grove Watchers are the Kokiri's elite unit, I added to their attack and shield values.
• Bottom Line: The Kokiri may be the weakest faction, but there abundant amount of troop should make up for their weakness vs. cavalry.

Gohma

The Gohma are what made me redo the EDU in the first place. I was frustrated by there strength and needed to fix it so I could enjoy the game more.

• Gohma Larvae, Juveniles and Adolescents are all now more true to their size. No longer can a unit of Gohma larvae stop a cavalry charge at the line.
• Larvae, Junveniles and Adolescents are now susceptible to charge from all units. Cavalry will run right through them. Physically large units(Darknuts, Knuckles etc.)will litteraly swat the Gohma around like bugs. Even Human sized infantry will be able to penetrated rather deep into a small Gohma unit and swat them around a bit.
• All Gohma armor values are either removed or lowered.
• Bottom Line: The Gohma are no longer too overpowered. The small Gohma units are more of a nuissance than a real threat and can be easily taken care of with cavalry. The Gohma's larger units that can cause problems to most armies. After I play my current campaign I will look into making Gohmas small units much more affordable so we see alot more Gohma full stacks running around.

Stalfos

• Changed weights of all units to be slightly lower than that of a human.
• Added armor values to Stalfos that wear armor or carry shields.

Moblins

• Bokoblins, Miniblins, Bulbiblins(?) are more vulnersble to charge like the Kokiri
• Large Moblin Units have higher charge values

Fairies of Tarm

• All the small Fairy units are vulnerable to charges, like any of the other small units, but the fairies now have a much higher Defence Skill rating to reflect how hard it would be to swat them out of the air.

Ikana

• Added shieled values to units that carry shields
• Chariots are now excelent chargers. Two horses and a large chariot give it almost double the charge of a basic horse cavalry.

I have also made countless other changes that I forgot to write down or remeber at this point. Every faction was looked over and had at least two units changed.

[Opus]

Could you release this? I am making a mod for Hyrule and this sounds useful to balance out things. (and add a bit of realism)

[Emrys]

I would love to see this released by itself too. Sounds wonderful!

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

@Emperor Hantscher

Looks good. One question about the Kokiri though. By "weakest faction" do you mean in physical stature or the power of the race as a whole? Currently, they are actually one of the most powerful, in the "upper-tier" so to speak. They have very powerful ranged troops (including the ridiculously powerful-in-melee Emerald Archers), excellent light cavalry in the form of Wolfos Riders, and enough melee to make a good meat shield. Their only real weakness was their lack of a good spearmen unit, making them very vulnerable to cavalry (which I see you have expanded on, good call there; I do believe this holds them true to their racial distinctions).

[Emperor Hantscher]

With Nephilims permission I would be glad to release this, after I test it thoroughly in my new campaign.

About the kokiri I meant that they were the weakest physically of the major factions, those being the Hylians, Gorons, Zora, Gerudo, Ordonna. and if you compare them to the Hylians or to a greater extent th Gorons, they will take a beating in the initial charge. Once you get into melee though they start to fair a lot better but they are still weaker. That's why I boosted the Grove Watchers, in case thy come up against larger units, Gorons, Moblins, Darknut and even the Hylians they now have an infantry unit that can handle most of their larger, heavily armored enemies.

[Avatar of the Ice Wolf]

@Emperor Hantscher

Ah, I see. Thank you for the clarification, good sir.

[UndyingNephalim]

I might adopt these changes since they pretty much seem like what I was going for in the first place.

If it was not obvious by now I've not really bothered much with tweaking stats. I probably won't get into balancing myself until everything is in the game.

[Emperor Hantscher]

I might adopt these changes since they pretty much seem like what I was going for in the first place.

If it was not obvious by now I've not really bothered much with tweaking stats. I probably won't get into balancing myself until everything is in the game.

Would you be okay with me releasing this so others can try it out? I only changed the EDU and descr_mount files nothing else.

[UndyingNephalim]

Would you be okay with me releasing this so others can try it out? I only changed the EDU and descr_mount files nothing else.

Yes you can release it.

[HerofTime]

Oh, can you please post an announcement when you do release it? That would be great! Also, I always forget to say this but thank you for your continued commitment to this project Neph .

[nintendo64isking]

These seem like positive ideas for when balancing is implemented

[Bu11seye00]

Upload please

I wonder what happened to Holy Pilgrim's unit balancing project for HTW

[Emrys]

@Bu11seye00
I believe he was waiting for all of the units to be implemented and for their style of recruitment. He wasn't just balancing their stats but their cost and recruitment times to make a more balanced game.

[Emperor Hantscher]

I will upload it within a few days. I have to tweak a few things before releasing.

[Bu11seye00]

Awesome, please make sure you provide a full detailed list of all your changes upon release

[Eldren]

I'm looking foreword to this mini-release. To make a balanced game is Great and Fun. But to have physics in game. would make it that much more real. and Draw us in.
And I agree with Bu11seye00. I would like to see that.

Awesome, please make sure you provide a full detailed list of all your changes upon release

[Emperor Hantscher]

Awesome, please make sure you provide a full detailed list of all your changes upon release

Everything is pretty well stated in the OP, aside from certain units having one of their stats changed by one or two points. TBH I didn't write down alot of those minor changes so to compile a complete list of all the changes now would be more of a hassle than anything. I don't think those minor changes are even noticeable in game.

Now that I've been able to play about 50 turns into my new campaign using this EDU I don't think it changed anything as far as campaign play is concerned. In my first campaign(as Hyrule) I kept the peace for a while but in the span of two turns I had the Gorons, Lanayru, and Gohma declare war on me. I sent the bulk of my armies to fight the Gorons in the North-East and my full stack was literaly rolled over by a Goron 3/4 stack army. Once my two full stack armies were destroyed I had only one or two Town Guard in each town. My lands in Hyrule were all gone and Zelda I defected to my lands in Zuna and it was at that point I decided to change up the EDU as I felt no difference when I was fighting Gohma's or Lanayru, two very different races.

My second campaign is hard to tell the real differences because I've yet to fight another faction even at turn 50! I'm trying to keep to Hyrule's role in the land and actually try to keep the peace and try to keep everyone friendly. Though some wars have broken out. For example the Kokiri and Zora. The Zoras invaded the lost woods and took the Sacred Forest Temple. AT first it seemed the Kokiri might get crushed as I originally thought I may have made them too weak, but after losing the Forest Temple they have been able to hold off the Zora's advancing armies even after the Zora formed and alliance with the Deku Tribes and Lizalfos who have since opened a second front on the Kokiri. yet the Kokiri are holding strong so they are not as weak as I originally thought.

The Gohma, another faction I feared I may have made to weak and thought they might get stomped. They are fighting a war on two fronts with Lanayru in the north and Gerudo in the South and East. So far the Gohma have yet to succeed any territory but are losing alot of battles, they just keep reinforcing with little 1/4 stacks which i love about them. Unlike my first campaign where the Gohma expanded very fast they seem to have expanded rather slower in this campaign but they still are not a pushover.

So, the campaign should not be affected too much, but I've yet to really test it. Through all the custom battles those small factions might be too easy if you have an abundant amount of cavalry or large units but cavalry usual dies pretty fast while in melee with anyone anyways so it shouldn't make it to easy.


I'm going to go over everything now and make sure i got everythign I wanted to. I'm positive I forgot to redo alot of the General's Bodyguard units. I'm going to match them with the regular unit and i will also add to there Defence skill to represent the fact that the Generals Bodyguard are "la crème de la crème" so they should be better trained and thus be more skilled.(ADDED TO OP)

[Opus]

@Emperor Hantscher
I was wondering, are you also going to change the radius and height value of the soldiers? (radius allowing smaller things to swarms a target and height is unknown as far as I know.)

[Emperor Hantscher]

I'll look into it, it doesn't sound like a bad idea.

[Opus]

I'll look into it, it doesn't sound like a bad idea.

Allright. If you don't know of them before, their modded in the EDU file and are normally hidden.


soldier---------------------------------- unit_model, soldiers, extras, mass, radius, height

I think that the height probably shouldn't be messed with as it just makes 'shorter' units more powerful and the radius itself should only be decreased minutely for the koriki and actually increased for the gorons so that they aren't so powerful.
You might also want to look into modding the unit's speed. Lightly armored troops move faster and armored troops move slower.


BTW, the edu file tutorial for m2tw did not show me this, but this one for Rome did. I don't know if it all still applies, but it might be useful to read it all any way.

http://mjollnir.twcenter.net/forums/...1344#Breakdown


for some reason the EDU example keeps cramping up, so I put in a bunch of little lines. just imagine a space.