Are warrior monks useful?

[Palandiell]

Just starting to play as Uesigi. And as I understand it, most players do not use warrior monks if they are not uesigi. My question is: Why? Are they not useful? What is their main purpose on the battlefield?

Same question could be asked about the naginta units. They have spears yet are not as effective as yari units against cav. They are slightly better in inf. combat though. So is it just a trade off?

[CptAustus]

I dont use them for two reasons: they require a lot of setup and I dont find them too effective. They require a tier 2 or 3 (I cant remember which) temple and a naginata dojo. Both of those require research I dont usually bother with. Their low armor makes them undesireble unless they have armor upgrades, which then requires either a blacksmith or an encampment (yet more research). In the end I dont find them that effective, aside from the strategic warcry and think katana samurai will do better.

On naginata/yari vs cav. There isnt much difference between 15 or 25 bonus, the cavalry will deal minimal damage and be wiped regardless. Naginata samurai, due to their high armor, will be able to stand a lot better against charges and infantry, so they end up better than yari samurai in every situation.

[Altimis]

Just starting to play as Uesigi. And as I understand it, most players do not use warrior monks if they are not uesigi. My question is: Why? Are they not useful? What is their main purpose on the battlefield?

Same question could be asked about the naginta units. They have spears yet are not as effective as yari units against cav. They are slightly better in inf. combat though. So is it just a trade off?

Their main power is 'warcry' which is very powerful skill, and also Monk Warrior also have higher overall stats more than ordinary Katana Samurai and more versatile vs both cavalry and infantry. Especially when they were upgraded armor up to reasonable +6 armor, they kinda unstoppable.

There are no reason not to use it unless underestimated. Even not Ikko Ikki or Uesugi, they still fearsome.

The downside is high upkeep if not Uesugi or Ikko Ikki, and higher recruitment cost and time.

I dont use them for two reasons: they require a lot of setup and I dont find them too effective. They require a tier 2 or 3 (I cant remember which) temple and a naginata dojo. Both of those require research I dont usually bother with. Their low armor makes them undesireble unless they have armor upgrades, which then requires either a blacksmith or an encampment (yet more research). In the end I dont find them that effective, aside from the strategic warcry and think katana samurai will do better.

On naginata/yari vs cav. There isnt much difference between 15 or 25 bonus, the cavalry will deal minimal damage and be wiped regardless. Naginata samurai, due to their high armor, will be able to stand a lot better against charges and infantry, so they end up better than yari samurai in every situation.

No matter Samurai do, they most likely to lose to Monk warrior at most situation, I don't see why not use Monk if you play Uesugi or Ikko Ikki, I just play by their advantage. Otherwise, maybe I don't need Monk at all because the best samurai is Naginata indeed

[Nicolaos]

If you play as Uesugi, go for them. I am not sure, but despite the bonus on their strength they are also cheaper (?). As Cpt. Austus said, they require certain technologies and buildings that I do not usually bother with. However, it is different with uesugi, because they are their signature unit. Also if you have a province with Temples as ressource (what were their names again) you can choose to build the one that adds xp to the trained monks. monk archers are also very powerful

[krisslanza]

Monk archers are pretty much the best archer in the game in terms of range. The actual Monk units are pretty beefy but they are far more resource and research intensive then samurai. Useugi Monks are pretty good, but I don't think you should try to beeline for them, or build the "core" of your army from Monks, just because they're not easy to get and take a lot more set-up.

I still feel they're worth the time, but you have to handle them differently.

[Basileos Leandros I]

Ikko Ikki Warrior Monks with 2 or 3 chevron experience can yield serious enemy damage and hack their way through almost every enemy line.

[Altimis]

Same question could be asked about the naginta units. They have spears yet are not as effective as yari units against cav. They are slightly better in inf. combat though. So is it just a trade off?

I forgot to answer this question

Not as effective as Yari, perhaps but Naginata still a fearsome weapon, they can still crushing cavalry without serious problems at all, I would say Yari bonus vs cavalry is so so, their attack is kinda weak and useless in battle compared to Naginata while Naginata is jack of all trade but that is their advantage, decent attack (less attack than Katana samurai -3), good defense (higher defense than Katana samurai +2), good bonus fighting cavalry (9+15 = atk 24 is enough to kill everything with mounted), very high armor (Naginata samurai have more armor than Katana +4) same upkeep as others samurai (150)

No matter I look at those stats if you are not Shimazu, Naginata is the best overall stats so far, especially bonus vs cavalry and good defense like Yari, the most highest armor in the game, decent attack (you might want to upgraded weapon +6 atk which boost up to 15 atk and +30 atk if fighting mounted which equal to hero atk)

When I play Hojo or Mori, they don't have specialize in any land units, so I spam Naginata :p

[Basileos Leandros I]

Naginata is the combination between Yari and Katana, it's a really versatile weapon and can really help anchor your units. They work well in a defensive situation as outlined in the post above me, but don't expect them to be very useful on attack mode.

[DeliCiousTZM]

They melt to archers.

[Shea O'Gorath]

They melt to archers.

This is the best way to put it. In any form or ranged combat, even if the enemy was too throw stones at them, they will fall like drunks on ice.

But get them into the center or a well timed flank attack along with that warcry and they will carve a path through most enemies.

[krisslanza]

They melt to archers.

Pretty much any unit to melts to archers. But everything cuts through archers in melee, practically so... tradeoff.

[Shea O'Gorath]

Pretty much any unit to melts to archers. But everything cuts through archers in melee, practically so... tradeoff.

Well then in the case of warrior monks they dissolve at the meer sight of them.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Pretty much any unit to melts to archers. But everything cuts through archers in melee, practically so... tradeoff.

No everything dont melt to archers.

[Altimis]

Nevermind, I think peeps talking about Monk : )

[6Bagheera9]

The Uesugi are the only clan that can really build an army around them because they get both superior and cheaper warrior monks. Other clans might only take one or two for their armies as special assault troops. This is especially important for Ikki Ikko as their armies are otherwise almost entirely ashigaru and they need monks for the their concentrated killing power. Vanilla they the best non-hero unit in melee and only No-Dachis with banzai and a charge to the rear or flank can beat them one on one. But what really makes them scary is when you train them at a settlement with a holy-site, they'll can start with up to 5 xp.
That being said, archers are a threat but proper tactics can overcome this potential weakness. I don't generally lead with them, I like to keep them on the flanks (hopefully in the woods.) or in my center in the 3rd line screened by bow ashi skirmishers and yari ashi as a meat shield. Once the battle is joined, I try to charge them into the thick of it and fire off a warcry. Using them this way means that your opponent will have to make a very deliberate effort to get at them with archers. I also find that since the armory is so useful for beefing up other units (particularly ashigaru), I always research it early and thus have it available for monks.

[niko from Australia]

yeah nagi

[6Bagheera9]

Archers only become really scary when there are a lot of them focus-firing on on unit. Diffuse arrow fire will not inflict that many casualties prior to the lines falling into melee, after that archers won't have clear shots on troops in the front lines and will either have to move towards the flanks or try to snipe units further back.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Archers only become really scary when there are a lot of them focus-firing on on unit. Diffuse arrow fire will not inflict that many casualties prior to the lines falling into melee, after that archers won't have clear shots on troops in the front lines and will either have to move towards the flanks or try to snipe units further back.

If you micro your archers you can have them pretty much consistently firing. You use youe melee units to lock up other ones then fire at them from the sides.

[Micromoron]

Thy are very versatile, the only downside is the lack of armor. The Nagi Warrior Monks are pretty cheap for a Monk that can beat katana samurai, cavalry and spear guys.

[eXistenZ]

The lack of armour combined with a focus fire from archers will decimate them before they can get to the archers.

I really find it a shame, cause monks units are cool, and should be very strong. But like said, in campaigns on hard or higher they are pretty much useless. their high recruitment and upkeep cost, combined with the many techs/buildings you need and the armies the AI spams, they are (literally) dead weight