Help me understand finances in BGR IV

[Xiloscient]

Okay, if this should be in another thread I apologize. I am playing Stainless Steel 6.4 with BGR IV. Five is just way over my head.

I pretty much understand all the concepts with this mod and I REALLY want to like and love it. However I like to know everything down to the cent when it comes to Total War or strategy games. I cant for the life of me figure out where my funds are going. What the math is etc. For you BGR IV experts I will provide the following example of my first two turns. Can you PLEASE fill in the blanks. Thank you

Faction: Teutonic Order
Treasury on bottom right of screen: 11200
There are two nobles in my faction. Both in my areas... and in the open field.

Financial Page details:
Projected income= 4483 Projected expenses = 5360
Projected profit = -877
Projected Treasury total = 11123.

Now this seems straight forward right? However Im already threw off b/c my treasury is 11200. If I were to -877 from that it definitely would not be 11123. So this is where the confusion starts.. but now it gets worse.

Hence we come to turn #2. I just hit end turn. I did absolutely did nothing. No buying, recruiting etc. Nothing.

Now my nobles are in the same spots. I click the faction button and it says Noble expenses = 200. I understand the whole concept and where this money should come from etc.

However now the bottom right of my screen treasury total = 8523 ??

Financial page details:
Projected income=4490 Projected expense=5360
Profit= -870
Projected treasury total 9453?

Now my confusion has reached peak levels. The only fees I had was each noble collected 100 tax. Where did all that other money go? They bought no supplies etc?

Like I said I WANT to love this mod. I love the idea and concept of it. It also adds to my immersion and RP factor within M2TW. (which I fealt the game was lacking. I enjoy province management much more in Empire, Shogun 2 and Shogun 2 FoTS especially).

I appreciate any help for a BGR noob. Thank You!

[Ichon]

Did you not see http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=106060 right above where you posted?

Anyway there is alot going on in BGR that is not shown in your financial tab in game. So basically disregard that for the most part. Mercenaries, recruiting, enemy foraging, siege, supplies, coming of age, titles, etc are additional costs not shown on that tab. So if you have 2 generals who have not moved and you did not recruit anything or do any movements in field (sieges or simply army sitting outside of a town) and did not build anything or have mercenaries sitting in an army?

The first place additional costs are likely is if either or both generals are filling supplies. So if either has less than 100% supplies there is a cost to refill. Additionally enemy armies foraging in your territories even if you can't see them impose some costs. Otherwise any armies you recruited might had added cost depending on the type. So heavy cavalry cost +300 or something. Been awhile since I read the guide but if you are puzzled you should really read the guide. After playing BGR extensively for several months I never did figure out all the costs and really stopped worrying about it. Just expect to be in the red more often than not but usually you can progress fairly well and the only huge costs are normally with coming of age where you can easily get -10,000 or more in 1 turn from a prince or 2 of the royal family.

[Xiloscient]

I appreciate the response. Trust me I read the guide many times over. Its just not as detailed as I would like it to be in the financial section. Which is the reason why I'm here. I understand the extra costs for heavy/cav/merc etc. But like I said I literally only hit end turn. Its a 2 province faction to start. Only enemies in my lands are two rebel armies. Both generals are at 100% supplies.

[Ichon]

I appreciate the response. Trust me I read the guide many times over. Its just not as detailed as I would like it to be in the financial section. Which is the reason why I'm here. I understand the extra costs for heavy/cav/merc etc. But like I said I literally only hit end turn. Its a 2 province faction to start. Only enemies in my lands are two rebel armies. Both generals are at 100% supplies.

The start of game also fills up your generals funds I believe- on turn 1 you are saying you did absolutely no moves, recruitment, or buildings? Rebel army probably do hit the local economy but I'd be surprised 3,000+ difference but possibly. Does the faction you are playing start with any mercenaries? CS and some other factions have quite substantial extra costs from turn 1 due to mercenaries.

[Xiloscient]

The start of game also fills up your generals funds I believe- on turn 1 you are saying you did absolutely no moves, recruitment, or buildings? Rebel army probably do hit the local economy but I'd be surprised 3,000+ difference but possibly. Does the faction you are playing start with any mercenaries? CS and some other factions have quite substantial extra costs from turn 1 due to mercenaries.

Nope. Nothing. No Mercs. This was a testing scenario trying to figure out how it all works. I did a few more. So I decided to move my generals and troops to garrison. The result was pretty much equal with the noble expenses. Meaning I could account for where all the money was going. (For the most part... was still an invisible couple hundred here and there.) So my only conclusion could be cost from foraging your own lands. If this is the case then the foraging costs in my own areas is extreme. I checked the traits and they are foraging even though they have 100% supplies. The manual said this is normal. That armies will forage before using supplies if possible. I still dont find it very realistic that foraging your own lands would incur a 3k hit like that... when buying 25% supplies is just like 900....

I cant find any other reason for it to be happening. If it is indeed because of foraging I wish I could figure out how to disable the economy hit from foraging your own lands.

[Xiloscient]

A bit off topic here Ichon.. I checked out your campaign thread. Quite enjoying. Good job . Thanks for the help here too.

[Byg]

Examine your nobles purses in case one or more of them stole money via the bgr corruption system.

Take into account any non-bgr scripts that may affect your income and that any scripted money transactions are not reflected in the predictions.

Bear in mind that some bgr scripts operate at the start of the turn and some at the end. some amounts are deducted immediately and others are dealt with the following turn. This can make the projections and the bgr account scrolls appear not to add up. This confused me often in the past, but every time I did a thorough check the amounts were always correct. Just ignore the projections to some extent and leave yourself a buffer of money.


Forage damage costs in bgrIV will obviously not be in your nobles accounts because they are general economic damage. So make sure armies are garrisoned if you are checking amounts. Incidentally, the system in BGRV is far superior to this old one, with the actual farms being affected by any foraging armies or poor weather if the crop is devastated, so their cost is part of the in game prediction system.

Lastly, any amounts that the predictions are out by, that are not factors of 100, are not related to mods or scripts (though non bgr scripts might use 50s. Not certain). The game cannot always predict what is going to happen.


I posted the method of calculation to check somewhere, probably in the depths of the bgr thread.

[Byg]

If you can't find the aforementioned post by a search then download the bgrV manual and search for "The Nobles' Summaries Explained in Detail". It is still relevant to bgrIV.

[Xiloscient]

Thank for your work Byg. Maybe I will give BGR V another try. I'll also start searching for that thread.

[Xiloscient]

Giving BGR 5 a second try now. Read the manual twice over. I really like the function keys. One question though... are their merchants in BGR 5 ? Because I am unable to recruit them. I have Merchant building etc.

[Ichon]

Nope- BYG likes to control the income closely and merchants are too hard to pin down income as merchant skill and which resource they are on vary hugely.

[Byg]

And they are a player exploit and unnecessary micromanagement that involves no skill.

[Magus65]

And they are a player exploit and unnecessary micromanagement that involves no skill.

agreed Byg but i do miss being able to have merchant guilds in my cities. in a regular game i tended to make sure Constantinople always had a master or HQ merchant guild (since it made since to me through a roleplaying sense since it was the trade capital of the world at the time).

Not having merchants either eliminates or makes it very low chance to be able to set one up.