What Christianity needs

[Eric]

Is a Gospel according to Jesus, wouldn't that solve all the arguments, all the fighting and hypocritical, self-righteous bullcrap would be over and done with. If we had a Gospel, written by Jesus, the direct word of Jesus, all Christians could finally unite into one United, World Church, just as Jesus had originally intended. Then no hardcore Catholic, no hyper-conservative Methodist could twist His word any longer, no Catholic Church, no Methodist, or Lutheran, no Anglican, no Protestant Church could twist the Word to suit their own ends. A Gospel according to Jesus would solve all Christianity's problems, it would be His direct word, settling for once and for all whether he was Man or Divine, whether he had a Child or not, his relationship with Judas, Peter, and the rest of the Disciples and Mary Magdalene. Does anyone else agree with me that the Gospel of Jesus would solve Christianity's problems?

[I Have a Clever Name]

Yeah, I'll get working on it right away.

[Niles Crane]

Too bad Jesus is dead.

[Barbarian-Bob]

One could argue that it has already been done, but because there are different versions (not translations, I'm thinking Gnostic gospels and things like that) we are confused.

Christians believe it is the book of God, so Jesus must've had a hand in it.

I'm not sure if that was what you meant, or why Jesus doesn't say anything outright in the Bible instead of using tales that can be interpreted.

[Eric]

All the official Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are written according to the Disciples, obviously they are bound to be twisted and altered from the truth to suit the Disciples vision of what really happened. Now, if we got the Gospel written by Jesus himself, it would be twisted by no one, it would tell us the real truth, was he betrayed or not, was he man or divine, all those questions answered. Was he the Savior or was he a mere Prophet.

[Richard the Lionheart]

Is a Gospel according to Jesus, wouldn't that solve all the arguments, all the fighting and hypocritical, self-righteous bullcrap would be over and done with. If we had a Gospel, written by Jesus, the direct word of Jesus, all Christians could finally unite into one United, World Church, just as Jesus had originally intended. Then no hardcore Catholic, no hyper-conservative Methodist could twist His word any longer, no Catholic Church, no Methodist, or Lutheran, no Anglican, no Protestant Church could twist the Word to suit their own ends. A Gospel according to Jesus would solve all Christianity's problems, it would be His direct word, settling for once and for all whether he was Man or Divine, whether he had a Child or not, his relationship with Judas, Peter, and the rest of the Disciples and Mary Magdalene. Does anyone else agree with me that the Gospel of Jesus would solve Christianity's problems?

Well yes, of course, I agree. One of the main problems with the Bible is that none of it's Gospels were written or even dictated by Jesus. Nor were they even written during the time of his life.

All the official Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are written according to the Disciples, obviously they are bound to be twisted and altered from the truth to suit the Disciples vision of what really happened. Now, if we got the Gospel written by Jesus himself, it would be twisted by no one, it would tell us the real truth, was he betrayed or not, was he man or divine, all those questions answered. Was he the Savior or was he a mere Prophet.

I agree.

[Barbarian-Bob]

Well, the irony is of course that even if Jesus himself wrote the Gospels, the heathens still wouldn't believe a word of it. So what would be the point?

[Richard the Lionheart]

Well, the irony is of course that even if Jesus himself wrote the Gospels, the heathens still wouldn't believe a word of it. So what would be the point?

I think the original point was in regards to the effects it would have on the unity and meaning of Christianity.

[Barbarian-Bob]

Well, from a certain point of view, different churches are good. Jesus taught through tales and sometimes didn't say things outright, so that we had to interpret. Why? So we would think over the matter, and therefore understand it better.
A better understanding of the teachings of Christ can be achieved through discussion between different views in christianity. Just a thought.

[Ardeur]

Is a Gospel according to Jesus, wouldn't that solve all the arguments, all the fighting and hypocritical, self-righteous bullcrap would be over and done with. If we had a Gospel, written by Jesus, the direct word of Jesus, all Christians could finally unite into one United, World Church, just as Jesus had originally intended. Then no hardcore Catholic, no hyper-conservative Methodist could twist His word any longer, no Catholic Church, no Methodist, or Lutheran, no Anglican, no Protestant Church could twist the Word to suit their own ends. A Gospel according to Jesus would solve all Christianity's problems, it would be His direct word, settling for once and for all whether he was Man or Divine, whether he had a Child or not, his relationship with Judas, Peter, and the rest of the Disciples and Mary Magdalene. Does anyone else agree with me that the Gospel of Jesus would solve Christianity's problems?

I'm afraid not. I could sit an orange on the table in front of you and I. We'd both agree an orange sits before us. Therefore we'd be labeled believers in the orange. But then we might argue about whether the orange smelled good. We might argue about its taste, whether it had a lot of juice, whether its seeds could sprout new orange trees, etc.

All this arguing and bickering over something as simple and innocent as an orange.

No, there will be no burning cross, Mr. Sagan, because while some would claim it'd be the end all Christ-prover, others will argue it was just a collection of fireflies and nothing more.

Would you care to know why? Faith. The one thing that Christ requires from his followers is faith in Him. Faith is not something that can be easily labeled, and there is no How-To concerning it. It's a personal thing, and everyone will receive or reject it in their own way at their own time. I came to faith on a much different road than others. For me, the events of my life were enough to get me to put my faith in Christ. But take another person, put them through the exact same events, and they'll come out different than me, I promise you that.

[rez]

Barbarian bob is right. Discussion and contemplation are one million times better than to be simply told what to do like a child.

of course there are alway of the problems of how Jesus probaby could'nt even read or write. Instead he'd end up dictating hebrew to someone writing Greek and in that moment we don't get what jesus said but the best attempt at translating it.

not that that would be a huge problem - but a problem none the less

[Richard the Lionheart]

Barbarian bob is right. Discussion and contemplation are one million times better than to be simply told what to do like a child.

of course there are alway of the problems of how Jesus probaby could'nt even read or write. Instead he'd end up dictating hebrew to someone writing Greek and in that moment we don't get what jesus said but the best attempt at translating it.

not that that would be a huge problem - but a problem none the less

The whole problem is the lack of a clear and direct message.

Something like the Ten Commandments is much more effective and direct.

The point being raised here is that a Gospel written or dictated by Jesus himself would be much more credible than a Gospel written by someone else 60 years after the death of Jesus.

Look at it this way. If you find some journal that is 1000 years old, would you rather read the actual journal or another individuals "recollection and intepretation" of the journal?

[Barbarian-Bob]

Look at it this way. If you find some journal that is 1000 years old, would you rather read the actual journal or another individuals "recollection and intepretation" of the journal?

To be fair, the Gospels are not interpretations. They tell very simply what happens with and around Jesus. "It was in the days when..." "and then Jesus went to..." "Jesus then said..." "then the disciples asked...". They are almost like reports. They only state what happens. The interpretations don't come until Paul starts sending letters around to the different Christian groups in the Roman Empire, like Rome, Thessalonica, Corinth.

[Syron]

Gospel_of_St._Thomas ?

But realistically, look at it this way. Muslims have an entire book supposedly written - or rather corresponded - by their Prophet that are supposedly the actual words of Allah himself.

Didn't really do Islam any good did it?

Ironically, interpretation allows for tolerance. Absolutes simply make people immovable in belief.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Gospel_of_St._Thomas ?
But realistically, look at it this way. Muslims have an entire book supposedly written - or rather corresponded - by their Prophet that are supposedly the actual words of Allah himself.
Didn't really do Islam any good did it?

Ironically, interpretation allows for tolerance. Absolutes simply make people immovable in belief.

I know this is a christian debate, sorry couldn't help it. :tooth: For more than a thousand years when muslims were actually following the Qur'an I'm surprise you found that it didn't do any good... Probably you're not a student of history so a simple brief history can be found here if you would care to read.

It is only, like the Jews before them who abandon the Torah and the Christian later who abandon the Injeel, now muslims who abandon the Qur'an who are the ones who did not do Islam any good.

Okay.. Carry on with your debate. :wink:

[shenmueguru]

No, that's not an answer, because the Gospels are inspired by God - i.e., the word of God through the disciples. There's a verse somewhere in the bible that explains this. The disciples didn't get anything wrong, couldn't have said anything worse. Basically, the voice of Jesus written by someone else.

[DarkKnight]

Christianity would be just as divided as it is now. The divisions in Christianity mainly stem from different interpretations of the same text, not disagreement about whether the text is true.

[rez]

That's not the point. The main point of the thread-starter is that if a Gospel written by Jesus existed, then Christians would be more united and the message of Christianity would be more authentic in the religious sense.

So you would rather have me reiterate the same point over and over again from the first post rather than discuss the fact that even if Jesus had given us a single gospel of instruction it would still pale in comparison to contemplation and discussion of God.

Why can't i try to develop the conversation?

[The Lacedaemonian]

well i dont think we can unite christianity because there are so many views on it.

[rez]

The whole problem is the lack of a clear and direct message.

Something like the Ten Commandments is much more effective and direct.

The point being raised here is that a Gospel written or dictated by Jesus himself would be much more credible than a Gospel written by someone else 60 years after the death of Jesus.

Look at it this way. If you find some journal that is 1000 years old, would you rather read the actual journal or another individuals "recollection and intepretation" of the journal?

A thousand thanks for explaining that complex reasoning to me, i was adrift in a sea of confusion until your wisdom saved me.

the point i was making is that even if there was a simple set of instructions to get into heaven - it would be redundant.

To order the submission of a people through extremely precise rituals and behavours requires NO comprehension or faith. Only obedience.

And obedience is what he really wants right?

Where is the thought? the expression of real love for something you truly understand.

just be told what to do like a child has no integrity to it. Just an easy way out, hoping ever so intensely that you can get to heaven - but you must read the MANUAL!! only the manual knows the true way, the true way cannot be attained through thought! only through obedience!

No, that's not an answer, because the Gospels are inspired by God - i.e., the word of God through the disciples. There's a verse somewhere in the bible that explains this. The disciples didn't get anything wrong, couldn't have said anything worse. Basically, the voice of Jesus written by someone else

Soif every gospel is God's pure and just truth then why exactly do the gospels contradict each other on so many points?

How many "Truths" are there?