Mûmakil VS Ents

[total relism]

So I have been creating matches in the custom battles of my favorite/strongest units trools,ents,Sauron, Mûmakil etc.


In the case of the ents, I use one unit [10 ents] and face them against Olog-hai they do well, against the balrog they do well, against Sauron etc. But than I face 10 ents against 5 Mûmakil [one unit] and every time they lose all 10 ents without killing even one Mûmakil. I try even with the archers not being able to shoot and same result. The unit stats for the ents and Mûmakil are very close near even, so why is it that 10 ents cant kill even one Mûmakil?.


also it says ents have a special atack, anyone know what it is? they have no special ability so what is the special attack?. Thanks.

[total relism]

has anyone tried this is it a glitch?.

[Wizad]

Mumakil melee attacks seem to be armor piercing I think, that would explain why they do so much damage. The majority of the Ent's defense is in armor.

Also the primary attack and the secondary attack of the Ent have the same value, so I don't think they have a special attack.

[total relism]

Mumakil melee attacks seem to be armor piercing I think, that would explain why they do so much damage. The majority of the Ent's defense is in armor.

Also the primary attack and the secondary attack of the Ent have the same value, so I don't think they have a special attack.

Thanks for response,in there unit card it says they have a special attack, like high morale,bonus vs Calvary special attack etc.

[DrDragun]

Mumakil
6hp
36 attack (+20 charge), armor piercing
48 defense (27+21)

Ents
6hp
45 attack (+15 charge)
42 defense (28+14+0)

Wizad is right, it's definitely because Mumaks have armor pierce, and there may also be a drastic difference in their attack animation speed (this is a property that's not reflected in unit stats)

[Withwnar]

I just assumed that "special attack" was their kicking style of fighting.

[Peahead]

Yeah when they attack they pwn about 50 small units a time, thats pretty special imo lol.

I love how hard it is to take down the monsters in third age, no doubt if official developers made a game of it they would be a lot easier to kill, or there would be special counter units but for me it's epic challenge and far more true to the story for them to make mince meat out of hundreds of standard troops just like they do in the books and films. Great job by the third age team I'm loving everything about this mod, it's so challenging. So far I've played Gondor, Free Peoples, and Dwarves, every campaign was like playing a different game and yet its very well balanced.

[ArmyCharger]

I love how hard it is to take down the monsters in third age, no doubt if official developers made a game of it they would be a lot easier to kill, or there would be special counter units but for me it's epic challenge

errrr...skirmishers still massacre mumaks, right?

[Bowmaster]

Yep...

[wlf89]

if you want kill an elephant unit you just take the 2 unit have thrown_axe.

[DrDragun]

Or 1 ballista, flaming mode, so when you kill 1 Mumak the others become "Running Amok" and trash the enemy lines.

[Dunadd]

If that's the case it sounds like you could edit the export_descr_unit file to improve ents - from the books they were more than capable of beating trolls never mind mumakil. Books say trolls were made in mockery of ents and are as much weaker than ents as orcs are compared to elves. Also no mention of mumakil being nearly as deadly or as important in the battle of the Pelennor fields in the book as they were in the film. In the book the best Southron / Haradrim troops were the cavalry with the black serpent banner and no mention of mumakil being devastating at all.

[k/t]

"In the film the best Southron / Haradrim troops were the cavalry with the black serpent banner and no mention of mumakil being devastating at all."

In the book, you mean?

[Galain_Ironhide]

So I have been creating matches in the custom battles of my favorite/strongest units trools,ents,Sauron, Mûmakil etc.


In the case of the ents, I use one unit [10 ents] and face them against Olog-hai they do well, against the balrog they do well, against Sauron etc. But than I face 10 ents against 5 Mûmakil [one unit] and every time they lose all 10 ents without killing even one Mûmakil. I try even with the archers not being able to shoot and same result. The unit stats for the ents and Mûmakil are very close near even, so why is it that 10 ents cant kill even one Mûmakil?.


also it says ents have a special atack, anyone know what it is? they have no special ability so what is the special attack?. Thanks.

After reading this, I tried it out for myself. The ents did not even make one attempt at attacking the Mumakil. Just stood in amongst the Mumakil and slowly got beaten down.

Maybe the size of the Mumakil compared to the ent is a result of this? Don't see how but.......

Not that it really matters, the actual probability of these two units fighting each other in a campaign would almost be unheard of. (IMO)

[Altimis]

So I have been creating matches in the custom battles of my favorite/strongest units trools,ents,Sauron, Mûmakil etc.


In the case of the ents, I use one unit [10 ents] and face them against Olog-hai they do well, against the balrog they do well, against Sauron etc. But than I face 10 ents against 5 Mûmakil [one unit] and every time they lose all 10 ents without killing even one Mûmakil. I try even with the archers not being able to shoot and same result. The unit stats for the ents and Mûmakil are very close near even, so why is it that 10 ents cant kill even one Mûmakil?.


also it says ents have a special atack, anyone know what it is? they have no special ability so what is the special attack?. Thanks.

Special attack = Multiple attack with one blow, like catapult storm on the infantry and got spattering.

I dunno why ents fail to kill any single mumakill but if look on size between them, I gotta think mumakill would rule them all without effort.

[Wizad]

Ents and Mumakil both have very high defensive stats. This makes it almost impossible for both of them to kill each other, were it not for the armor piercing attacks of the Mumakil.

[total relism]

Yeah when they attack they pwn about 50 small units a time, thats pretty special imo lol.

I love how hard it is to take down the monsters in third age, no doubt if official developers made a game of it they would be a lot easier to kill, or there would be special counter units but for me it's epic challenge and far more true to the story for them to make mince meat out of hundreds of standard troops just like they do in the books and films. Great job by the third age team I'm loving everything about this mod, it's so challenging. So far I've played Gondor, Free Peoples, and Dwarves, every campaign was like playing a different game and yet its very well balanced.

I like also the "monsters" are stong and tuff, makes game great, I had epic battle against balrog. I also hate counters or rps units ruins the fun.

If that's the case it sounds like you could edit the export_descr_unit file to improve ents - from the books they were more than capable of beating trolls never mind mumakil. Books say trolls were made in mockery of ents and are as much weaker than ents as orcs are compared to elves. Also no mention of mumakil being nearly as deadly or as important in the battle of the Pelennor fields in the book as they were in the film. In the film the best Southron / Haradrim troops were the cavalry with the black serpent banner and no mention of mumakil being devastating at all.

That is interesting, i only ever seen movies so dont know. I would like to see what the book says about the mumakil.

After reading this, I tried it out for myself. The ents did not even make one attempt at attacking the Mumakil. Just stood in amongst the Mumakil and slowly got beaten down.

Maybe the size of the Mumakil compared to the ent is a result of this? Don't see how but.......

Not that it really matters, the actual probability of these two units fighting each other in a campaign would almost be unheard of. (IMO)

I think it may be a glitch that they dont seem to attack at all.


But in single battles online they can. or if you atack each other.

Special attack = Multiple attack with one blow, like catapult storm on the infantry and got spattering.

I dunno why ents fail to kill any single mumakill but if look on size between them, I gotta think mumakill would rule them all without effort.

stats are close to even, trolls always kill at least one mumakil, ents beat trools soo...............

Ents and Mumakil both have very high defensive stats. This makes it almost impossible for both of them to kill each other, were it not for the armor piercing attacks of the Mumakil.

Run them ,they kill each other [well one way] pretty easy, they both have great attack.

[DrDragun]

stats are close to even, trolls always kill at least one mumakil, ents beat trools soo...............

Most of trolls defense comes from skill (parry). For example a Mountain Troll is 29 defense (6+23+0). Only 6 of their defense is armor. So armor piercing isn't such a big deal against trolls, it will only reduce their defense to 26 from 29 (cuts the 6 to a 3).

Ents use actual armor as most of their defense (makes sense... wood and bark are hard). They have 42 defense (28+14+0). So a unit with armor piercing will reduce their armor to 28 (14+14+0) from 42 (28+14+0)... a big difference.

Your testing is actually a good illustration of something I've been saying for a long time... Axemen are not really a counter to trolls because armor piercing doesn't affect trolls too much. Only a small percentage. Everyone knows archers are good against trolls, but I'm not sure ppl understand what a big difference it is. Archers completely ignore defense skill... so the Mountain Troll only has 6 defense against archers vs 29 defense against regular melee and 26 defense against axe melee.

[kristoreie]

Mumakil melee attacks seem to be armor piercing I think

[StealthFox]

Aren't Ents also classified as Elephants? If so, that's why they have trouble engaging each other. The same thing will happen if you have Sauron fighting Mumakil.