Rohan , Harad , Rhun over-powered?

[Dunadd]

It seems to me that none of these three factions have any weaknesses in their troop roster - and Rohan especially gets too many good quality infantry. From the book of LOTR and the battles of the fords of Isen in Unfinished tales, while Rohan had some infantry and archers they did not come across as elite - and many (e.g at Helms' Deep) were those too young or too old to fight mounted.

And shouldn't dismounted whatever units have no more troops in them than a mounted unit would have? Huge units of dismounted Rohirrim Elite Lancers or dismounted Serpent Guard are maybe a bit much.

[FC Groningen]

I don't consider Rohan's infantry that powerful, nor their archers. In auto resolve, they usually get boned and more often than not lose the war against Isengard. Rhun and Harad indeed grow very powerful, which is mostly due to their economy. In harad's case, once it can spam Mumakil units, Gondor (AI or human controled) is in for a very hard time. Yet, apart from that, their units aren't much better or even worse than their opponents.

[Basket of Warm Kittens]

Harad's overpoweredness comes from the fact it has only one enemy to face (Gondor) which already is being attacked by Mordor, unlike other factions which are usually beset on multiple sides by enemies

Perhaps Harad should start only with 3-4 cities in the far south, and have to "unite the tribes" before attacking Gondor. Or start out without Umbar (Umbar is supposed to be an unruly den of pirates and rebels anyways so it would make sense it has to be conquered and subdued)

Rhun somewhat as well as an AI faction since Dwarf AI for some reason usually ignores them

[FC Groningen]

Harad can take up to 15 settlements without too much challenge before they reach real Gondor territory. That's just too much and becomes worse the moment they start to expand into Gondor and/or an invasion is called upon them. Harad only becomes richer, which leads to sometimes 15 fullstacks running around at turn 100 if gone unchecked.

[Basket of Warm Kittens]

I think a cool submod script (Perhaps for MOS) would be an expanded Piracy mod for the Harad coast, it could help balance out Harad

IMO some ideas:
Coastal towns have a "Pirate lair" similar to a Thieves guild that comes in 3 levels, with the one in Umbar being level 3 obviously. It should give a boost to trade, but a massive hit to law (-10%, -20% and -30%), so the AI will be inclined to keep them and the towns will have constant uprisings

Also perhaps Pirate fleets and Bandits along the coastal road will spawn, the more money Harad (or Gondor if it controls the cities), the bigger the pirate fleets

[maxi90]

@OP: Whaaaaat? Rohan´s infantry is not strong. I would dare say it is one of the weakest of the game (except from OoG, which is rock bottom, and Eriador, but that one is debatable). They have very litle versatility, and their strongest and most usefull units are AOR. The dismounted lancers are quite good, but they don´t hold a candle to other faction´s top tear infantry, plus them being spearmen pretty much encases them to the role of guarding against the enemy and serving as the anvil for cavarly and/or other more agressive infantry.

And while their archers aren´t bad at all, having only one unit (weel, aside from the Helmingas, which are once again AOR) severely restricts the amount of missile units they can field in comparisson with the other factions, specially in late game. Seriously, you depend on your cavarly to succeed as Rohan.

Harad, on the other hand, i would say is quite OP. But only for their strategic location. The units they can field aren´t bad, and have all the bases pretty much covered, but they are not that good either, and you can drill holes in them with Gondor´s stronger, heavier infantry and archers. If they had to figth in more than one front, then things would get interesting. Also their territories don´t make nearly as much money as Rhun (or Rohan, for that matter).

Rhun, now, that´s the real deal. They are by far the most OP faction in the game (except for Mordor if you count the scripts for the AI). They have the best economy, an excelent starting position backed up by allies, and the most well rounded army in all of middle-earth (well, except for Gondor maybe). Even on VH/VH they are not much of a challenge... although it is a very fun campaing if you ask me.

[maxi90]

delete please.

[Macilrille]

Basically I agree with the other posters. Rohan definately does not have OP infantry. In fact, having played Rohan I found it all going well, until Mordor sent those dreadstacks my way. Rohan has very little in the way of Trollkillers and Mûmak-routers. Their cavalry is fine, but it is nothing compared to that of Gondor, except more numerous.

[Flinn]

Concur, I plaid Rohan variuos times, and I love them, still they don't have such a good infantry, IMO.
This thing has been discussed before too, so I think it depends mainly on players tastes and play stile.

To say that Rohan is OP is exagerated, especially compared with Harad (rich, becomes overpowered due to AI scripts and whem Mumak are on field you can say goodbuy .) and Ruhn (really OP, both economically and military); we can say that Rohan can field an all around rooster of troops, but defintely no, their infantry in not any good compared to Ruhn or Gondor (not to speak about the Elves and the Dwarves).. Rohan can become really powerful as soon as you have a 10 star general like Theoden leading an army of full cavalry mixed up (heavy-medium + light + horse arch or javelin), you can deal with anything (was normal to win up to 5-6 main battles against Mordor and Ruhn before I actually needed to retrain some of my units), except perharps Mumak.. you "only" need to have good economy, which means you have had to chop down Isengard and Dunland (for MOS), before you can do it .. so no, they are not OP

Flinn

[sanderman2]

Played a Rohan campaign last week , the only infantry i consider good in the rohan faction are the Helmingas and the Dismounted Royal Guard....
The rest is really worse then those of your usual enemies.

[k/t]

Every faction is overpowered.

[Dude with the Food]

I think we agree that Rhun is overpowered and Harad has an easy start position but I disagree about Rohan.

They have a small amount of archers but compared to their enemies, the basic archers are quite good. They get axemen who can stand against most enemies even if they can't kill them. I know the elite infantry is mainly AOR but they can fight anything and with cavalry can kill almost everything. When it comes to Mumakil/trolls/Sauron/Balrog Riddermark skirmishers can destroy them. With the axemen they get, I think that Rohan's infantry is the most underrated infantry. Maybe that's just me?

[Bowmaster]

What do you mean with that, @k/t?

[k/t]

Go back through the last few pages of this forum and you'll see.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=582805
www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=574730
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=570198
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=569407
www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=547945

And more...

Someone is always complaining about a faction being overpowered.

[Macilrille]

That is merely until they try playing that faction. Except Rhûn.

You might want instead to say that enemy factions are always OP.

[k/t]

Hehe, I thought of writing it out in full, but I didn't.

There are even people who complained about Snaga Skirmishers while playing as the Dwarves.

[Muuuu]

I am currently playing my first Dwarven Cmpgn on MOS 1.41 + EMM VH/VH and I was quite suprised that Rhun from the very start shows up with these devilish "flame-shooting-Tick-Tack-Rim-Tool-monsters" (Lôke-Thûl-Rim) and their over overall unit roster really seems pretty deep. I have to see how the cmpgn progresses though. Without Dale cavalry the Dwarves would be doomed against Rhun, but as it is it seems manageable. Even though it's probably going to be tough as nails. If only I had heavily armored Boar-Riders! Just kidding. I am not serious. Once I have more first hand experience pertaining the actual roster-balance, I'll be back though.

On Harad I got nothing ... no experience so far. Same for Rohan.


Muuuu

[Tureuki]

Swan Knights, Fountain Guards, Citadel Guard, Guards of Osgiliath, of whom 3 are restricted to certain settlements and has a slow recruitment pace.

They're elite and should be lesser in numbers, These guys easily destroying BG and they're numerous in Harad stacks.

[maxi90]

Swan Knights, Fountain Guards, Citadel Guard, Guards of Osgiliath, of whom 3 are restricted to certain settlements and has a slow recruitment pace.

They're elite and should be lesser in numbers, These guys easily destroying BG and they're numerous in Harad stacks.

SG are at the very top of Harad´s roster. To get to them you have to go through three tiers of buildings and many dozens of turns. And in the end, when paired with other elite cavalry, they are no that great... I mean, they are good, but they are not on top of some of the other faction´s cavalry. They are no Loke-rim or Eldar cavalry.

Besides, from a gameplay point of view, Harad needs them, both mounted and dissmounted, to keep up with the rest of the factions in late game.

[Tureuki]

SG are at the very top of Harad´s roster. To get to them you have to go through three tiers of buildings and many dozens of turns. And in the end, when paired with other elite cavalry, they are no that great... I mean, they are good, but they are not on top of some of the other faction´s cavalry. They are no Loke-rim or Eldar cavalry.

Besides, from a gameplay point of view, Harad needs them, both mounted and dissmounted, to keep up with the rest of the factions in late game.

Yes, but somehow AI comes with SG early in game, due to a script I guess.

Macilrille

As I said problem is with Auto resolve.