CEO of JPMorgan says you don’t need to know how banking works, it’s like an airliner engine, too complex to explain, just shut up and pay us.

[The Kybrothilian]

Jamie Dimon in Davos Switzerland today explaining why people don’t need to know what’s going on in the banking world. It’s too “complex.” Just know that their fee comes from managing this ball of financial confusion. And that’s all you need to know.


There, don’t you feel better? I mean it’s not like the world bailed out the whole banking system or anything. We should have faith.

http://www.againstcronycapitalism.or...up-and-pay-us/

In addition, I'd want to link a couple of articles and videos about how much people trust media and banks these days.

http://www.edelman.com/post/trust-in...cial-services/
http://www.edelman.com/insights/inte...3/about-trust/

Seems like trust is very small. And what Dimon said there isn't probably going to help it out.

Discuss.

[Sir Adrian]

That's pure . I'm a trained banker and I can tell you that anyone with a minimal amount of financial knowledge can at least partially understand what goes on in the banking world. Granted, you won't catch on to the finer things, but, unless you plan on investing heavily in the stock market or to speculate the exchange rates, you don't need to.

The problem is that the system is so unstable and corrupt that most banks are forced to withhold information from you, illegally sometimes, in order to survive, and that includes the information needed to see what is really going on on the market.

[Gaidin]

That's pure . I'm a trained banker and I can tell you that anyone with a minimal amount of financial knowledge can at least partially understand what goes on in the banking world. Granted, you won't catch on to the finer things, but, unless you plan on investing heavily in the stock market or the speculate the exchange rates, you don't need to.

The problem is that the system is so unstable and corrupt that most banks are forced to withhold information from you, illegally sometimes, in order to survive, and that includes the information needed to see what is really going on on the market.

He's still right. Anyone with a minimal amount of electrical engineering knowledge can at least partially understand what goes on in your CPU's world. Granted, you won't catch on to the finer things, but unless you plan on designing the next big processor instead of using it, you don't need to.

The problem is that some processors are so error prone that they have to run their calculations so many times to ensure correct results that their speeds are very deceptive if you want your system to work correctly.

See what I did there as an Electrical Engineer, Mr. Banker?

[removeduser_4536284751384]

While the wikipedia page on gas turbines may look pretty intimidating, they can be explained in about 8 short sentences to anyone.

[Adar]

And this is why we separate science from social science .

To a scientist everything can be understood if you just work hard enough.

[Gaidin]

While the wikipedia page on gas turbines may look pretty intimidating, they can be explained in about 8 short sentences to anyone.

I've already dug my grave in this thread so I'll just keep digging. As much as I do hate the guy from JP Morgan and I'd shoot him in the back as quickly as anyone here, there's not a person here who'd trust a gas turbine designed by someone who's not a fully educated engineer with an accredited degree and the design signed off by a licensed Professional Engineer.

Understanding the airliner engine, and designing it are two wildly different things. Understanding banking and working it are two wildly different things. Yes, fire the JP Morgan Crony(TM) and find someone else(pick your reason, for all I care if only for the sake of public confidence in the company), but there is logic in what he said.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

I've already dug my grave in this thread so I'll just keep digging. As much as I do hate the guy from JP Morgan and I'd shoot him in the back as quickly as anyone here, there's not a person here who'd trust a gas turbine designed by someone who's not a fully educated engineer with an accredited degree and the design signed off by a licensed Professional Engineer.

Understanding the airliner engine, and designing it are two wildly different things. Understanding banking and working it are two wildly different things. Yes, fire the JP Morgan Crony(TM) and find someone else(pick your reason, for all I care if only for the sake of public confidence in the company), but there is logic in what he said.

Yes, you are correct, but knowledge is power. You shouldn't be buying a gas turbine (or any piece of engineering) if you are not an engineer unless you have a good amateur understanding of its workings, so you don't end up falling afoul of the myriad of ways you could waste, or be manipulated into wasting, your money. If a firm didn't boast about features in its brochure, but simply said "our combined cycle gas turbine plans are among the best their is, but you don't need to know why", you wouldn't go near them. If they can't explain to an idiot why, they aren't good enough. The same goes for any major purchase actually.

Similarly, you should have some amateur understanding of the risks involved in a bank before you give them your money. If they refuse to help you with that, you shouldn't do business with them.

Get back to me when you figure out how to explain electromagnetic compatibility to a child. You'll win a teaching award. But that was hardly the point I was making anyway.

I managed to explain how digital systems are designed to a 17 year old a few days ago (granted not a child, he is studying chemistry at school), using anologies like a tap being turned on and off, and morse code. I even managed to explain what transistors are and how ons and offs become high level programming language. He doesn't need to know the details of how p and n type material interact or any of that sort of thing to have an amateur understanding of what occurs.

[Plan C]

I've already dug my grave in this thread so I'll just keep digging. As much as I do hate the guy from JP Morgan and I'd shoot him in the back as quickly as anyone here, there's not a person here who'd trust a gas turbine designed by someone who's not a fully educated engineer with an accredited degree and the design signed off by a licensed Professional Engineer.

Understanding the airliner engine, and designing it are two wildly different things. Understanding banking and working it are two wildly different things. Yes, fire the JP Morgan Crony(TM) and find someone else(pick your reason, for all I care if only for the sake of public confidence in the company), but there is logic in what he said.

That is all fine but your confidence in an airliner engine is a matter of choice, if you feel too giddy flying you can always take the train instead. There is no requirement for everybody to have even a rudimentary understanding of how a jet engine works.

The difference here is that banking system currently in place involves every facet of people's lives; in the UK the vast majority of employers will only arrange salary payments into one's bank account. State and private pension values depend on banking sector too. Mortgage payments for families are, invariably, tied to LIBOR. Private banks are also primary currency issuers (!!!)

Banking is not just a business, it has been imposed upon virtually every working man and woman (and many a baby) in the western world. By that virtue, making the system illegible to most is not good enough. It is not ethical, it is not welcome and it is not viable long-term.

What JP Morgan CEO actually meant is that societies and economies are held hostage to the fortunes of the financial sector and have no choice but to subsidise their operations. Or else...

EDIT: I know what it reminds me of now - ancient Egypt, where a priestly caste held a monopoly on knowledge of the mechanics governing the world. They had all the answers and, thus, all the power.

[Sir Adrian]

He's still right. Anyone with a minimal amount of electrical engineering knowledge can at least partially understand what goes on in your CPU's world. Granted, you won't catch on to the finer things, but unless you plan on designing the next big processor instead of using it, you don't need to.

The problem is that some processors are so error prone that they have to run their calculations so many times to ensure correct results that their speeds are very deceptive if you want your system to work correctly.

See what I did there as an Electrical Engineer, Mr. Banker?

I see you comparing two things that have nothing in common whatsoever, Mr. Engineer.

[Ak1980]

As usual when people feel the need to say trust me, that's the sign that something is wrong

[Plan C]

Airliner engine? If the principle of jet propulsion is hard for him to grasp what hope do we have for our banking system?

[The Dude]

Considering I have a strong belief that the vast majority of people involved in international banking are psychopaths to various degrees, I think I'll go ahead and tell him to sod off.

[Slaytaninc]

Considering I have a strong belief that the vast majority of people involved in international banking are psychopaths to various degrees, I think I'll go ahead and tell him to sod off.

This goes down to a lot of misconceptions though, because the vast majority of bankers are basically middle management types. They make more than many other fields, but they aren't raking in the money every year.

[Sphere]

If you cannot explain what you are doing in a manner which a child could understand, you don't understand it yourself.

[Gaidin]

If you cannot explain what you are doing in a manner which a child could understand, you don't understand it yourself.

Get back to me when you figure out how to explain electromagnetic compatibility to a child. You'll win a teaching award. But that was hardly the point I was making anyway.

[I WUB PUGS]

Get back to me when you figure out how to explain electromagnetic compatibility to a child. You'll win a teaching award. But that was hardly the point I was making anyway.

Funny. You're an engineer. Typically have terrible people skills and lack any ability to break down even the simplest concepts for end users to understand.

This gap is the reason I have a job, its the reason the position: Sales Engineer or Sales Technician exists. People that understand the technical side of projects/products and can relate them to any idiot.

It is an invaluable skill that many companies pay handsomely for. I get paid more than our engineers.

Saddly I don't see any commission like the rest of the sales team.

To use and understand something you don't need to know how every intricacy works. To design sure? Mr. Dimon hasn't designed anything. He is a big player in the big game, but it isn't at all like he is some wizard we should all default to because he built the system with his own hands. FYI, Mr. Dimon wasn't exactly thought to be a genius during the crash. Understanding a jet engine doesn't mean designing it. Understanding the different parts is enough. You don't need to go into why which metals are used where. You'd be hard pressed to find an end user that can tell you why X diode was used in the inner workings instead of Y.

[Adar]

If you cannot explain what you are doing in a manner which a child could understand, you don't understand it yourself.

That was a very good way of describing the problem.

[Col. Tartleton]

Jamie Dimon makes huge profits. Get off his back.

[Gaidin]

Hence me saying shoot the JPMorgan CEO. Well, one of the many reasons anyway. Though to be honest I don't expect explanations from a CEO. I expect a CEO to run his company. The layman explanations can come from the ones that actually interface with the laymen. The CEOs are usually a bit too busy calling the plays, as it were. And THAT is where his true incompetence lies.

[removeduser_4536284751384]

Hence me saying shoot the JPMorgan CEO. Well, one of the many reasons anyway. Though to be honest I don't expect explanations from a CEO. I expect a CEO to run his company. The layman explanations can come from the ones that actually interface with the laymen. The CEOs are usually a bit too busy calling the plays, as it were. And THAT is where his true incompetence lies.

Well, my main qualms are that he is the policy maker for the entire company, and his attitude is bound to affect branch manager and others in the company. And secondly, the more people who understand a system, the less likely that system is to be misused or abused. Trying to reduce understanding is always a bad thing.