Proposal: Been working with Pink

[Zeus Almighty]

On a complete overhaul of the Levy system, I did not want to lose the individuality of the regions and their units and he wants to consolidate how we have our troops classified. Thus it gave birth to this time consuming SOB. Let me know everyones thoughts. there are two regions that arent accounted for here and pink if you could please add them in that would be great. Still a WIP because it entails overhauling a few more things

The Vale

Very Large 10,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 5,000 Dismounted Knights of the Vale (Heavy Infantry) - 750 Falconguard (Pikemen)- 750 Archers- 1,500 Light Cavalry- 1,000 Knights of the Vale (Heavy Cavalry) - 500 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Dismounted Knights of the Bloody Gate will replace Heavy infantry Large 7,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 4,000 Dismounted Knights of the Vale (Heavy Infantry) - 500 Falconguard (Pikemen) - 500 Archers- 1,000 Light Cavalry- 1,000 Knights of the Vale (Heavy Cavalry)- 500 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Dismounted Knights of the Bloody Gate will replace Heavy infantry Medium 5,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 2,000 Dismounted Knights of the Vale (Heavy Infantry) - 500 Falconguard (Pikemen) - 500 Archers- 700 Light Cavalry- 1,000 Knights of the Vale (Heavy Cavalry)- 300 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Dismounted Knights of the Bloody Gate will replace Heavy infantry Small 2,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,000 Dismounted Knights of the Vale (Heavy Infantry) - 300 Falconguard (Pikemen) - 300 Archers- 600 Light Cavalry- 200 Knights of the Vale (Heavy Cavalry)- 100 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Dismounted Knights of the Bloody Gate will replace Heavy infantry

Stormlands

Very Large 10,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 4,000 Dismounted Stormland Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 4,000 Stormland Polearms (Pikemen) - 2,000 Archers- 1,500 Light Cavalry- 350 Mounted Stormlander Knights (Heavy Cavalry) - 150 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Large 7,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,500 Dismounted Stormland Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 3,000 Stormland Polearms (Pikemen) - 1,500 Archers- 1,250 Light Cavalry- 200 Mounted Stormlander Knights (Heavy Cavalry)- 50 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Medium 5,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,500 Dismounted Stormland Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 1,250 Stormland Polearms (Pikemen) - 1,250 Archers- 750 Light Cavalry- 200 Mounted Stormlander Knights (Heavy Cavalry)- 50 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES Small 2,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,000 Dismounted Stormland Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 600 Stormland Polearms (Pikemen) - 600 Archers- 200 Light Cavalry- 75 Mounted Stormlander Knights (Heavy Cavalry)- 25 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES-

The North

Very Large 10,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 4,000 Northern Ax-men (Heavy Infantry) - 4,000 Northmen Polearms (Pikemen) - 2,000 Archers- 1,500 Light Cavalry- 350 Mounted Northern Nobles (Heavy Cavalry) - 150 NOTE- Replace Light Inf. w/ Umber Axemen +1 against heavy Infantry Replace- Northern Axemen w/ Dreadfort Cleavers +1 against heavy Infantry Large 7,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,500 Northern Ax-men(Heavy Infantry) - 3,000 Northmen Polearms (Pikemen) - 1,500 Archers- 1,250 Light Cavalry- 200 Mounted Northern Nobles (Heavy Cavalry) - 50 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Replace Light Inf. w/ Umber Axemen +1 against heavy Infantry Replace- Northern Axemen w/ Dreadfort Cleavers +1 against heavy Infantry Medium 5,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,500 Northern Ax-men (Heavy Infantry) - 1,250 Northmen Polearms (Pikemen) - 1,250 Archers- 750 Light Cavalry- 200 Mounted Northern Nobles(Heavy Cavalry)- 50 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Replace Light Inf. w/ Umber Axemen +1 against heavy Infantry Replace- Northern Axemen w/ Dreadfort Cleavers +1 against heavy Infantry Small 2,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,000 Northern Ax-men (Heavy Infantry) - 600 Northmen Polearms (Pikemen) - 600 Archers- 200 Light Cavalry- 75 Mounted Northern Nobles (Heavy Cavalry)- 25 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Replace Light Inf. w/ Umber Axemen +1 against heavy Infantry Replace- Northern Axemen w/ Dreadfort Cleavers +1 against heavy Infantry

The Westerlands

Very Large 10,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 5,000 Dismounted Westerland Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 2,000 WesterlandPolearms (Pikemen) - 1,000 Archers- 700 Lannister Outriders (Light Cavalry)- 850 Mounted Westerland Knights (Heavy Cavalry) - 450 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Replace Heavy Inf. w/ Guardians of Casterly Rock +1 against heavy Infantry Large 7,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 4,000 Dismounted Westerland Knights (Heavy Infantry)- 1,500 Westerland Polearms (Pikemen) - 700 Archers- 500 Lannister Outriders (Light Cavalry)- 400 Mounted Westerland Knights (Heavy Cavalry)- 400 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Replace Heavy Inf. w/ Guardians of Casterly Rock +1 against heavy Infantry Medium 5,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 2,500 Dismounted Westerland Knights (Heavy Infantry)- 1,000 Westerland Polearms (Pikemen) - 550 Archers- 500 Lannister Outriders (Light Cavalry)- 300 Mounted Westerland Knights (Heavy Cavalry)- 150 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Replace Heavy Inf. w/ Guardians of Casterly Rock +1 against heavy Infantry Small 2,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,000 Dismounted Westerland Knights (Heavy Infantry)- 700 Westerland Polearms (Pikemen) - 300 Archers- 250 Lannister Outriders (Light Cavalry)- 175 Mounted Westerland Knights (Heavy Cavalry)- 75 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Replace Heavy Inf. w/ Guardians of Casterly Rock +1 against heavy Infantry

The Crownlands

Very Large 10,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 5,000 Crownland Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 2,000 Crownland Lancers (Pikemen) - 1,000 Archers- 700 Crownland Scouts (Light Cavalry)- 850 Mounted Crownland Knights (Heavy Cavalry)- 450 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Large 7,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 4,000 Crownland Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 1,500 Crownland Lancers (Pikemen) - 700 Archers- 500 Crownland Scouts (Light Cavalry)- 400 Mounted Crownland Knights (Heavy Cavalry) - 400 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Medium 5,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 2,500 Crownland Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 1,000 Crownland Lancers (Pikemen) - 550 Archers- 500 Crownland Scouts (Light Cavalry)- 300 Mounted Crownland Knights (Heavy Cavalry)- 150 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Small 2,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,000 Crownland Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 700 Crownland Lancers (Pikemen) - 300 Archers- 250 Crownland Scouts (Light Cavalry)- 175 Mounted Crownland Knights (Heavy Cavalry)- 75 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES-

Dorne

Very Large 10,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 2,000 Dornish Unmounted Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 2,000 Dornish Spearmen- 2,000 Archers- 2,000 Sandstead Riders (Light Cavalry) +1 Scouting Rolls- 1,750 Mounted Dornish Knights (Heavy Cavalry) - 250 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Large 7,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,000 Dornish Unmounted Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 1,500 Dornish Spearmen- 1,500 Archers- 1,500 Sandstead Riders (Light Cavalry) +1 scouting Rolls- 1,750 Mounted Dornish Knights (Heavy Cavalry) - 250 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Medium 5,000 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 1,000 Dornish Unmounted Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 1,000 Dornish Spearmen- 1,000 Archers- 1,000 Sandstead Riders (Light Cavalry) +1 scouting rolls- 850 Mounted Dornish Knights (Heavy Cavalry) - 150 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Small 2,500 Light Infantry (Swordsmen)- 500 Dornish Unmounted Knights (Heavy Infantry) - 500 Dornish Spearmen - 500 Archers- 500 Sandstead Riders (Light Cavalry) +1 scouting rolls- 450 Mounted Dornish Knights (Heavy Cavalry)- 50 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES:

Iron Isles

Medium 5,000 Ironborn Reavers (Light Infantry) +1 against Light Inf- 2,500 Ironborn Beserkers(Heavy Infantry) - 1,000 Ironborn Spearmen- 1,000 Archers- 350 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Small 2,500 Ironborn Reavers (Light Infantry) +1 against Light Inf.- 1,000 Ironborn Beserkers (Heavy Infantry)- 750 Ironborn Spearmen- 500 Archers- 250 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES- Very Small 1,000 Ironborn Reavers (Light Infantry) +1 against Light Inf.- 500 Ironborn Beserkers (Heavy Infantry) - 250 Ironborn Spearmen - 150 Archers- 100 NOTE IN RESPECTIVE CITIES-

[Xion]

I don't like it. It rewards a miminal amount of the provinces with a unique unit that can easily be purchased. Unless this means players are losing the ability to purchase professional troops and losing any currently purchased troops..?

Edit : A example.

The Riverlands has around 18 provinces. The three unique units of the Riverlands are Riverrun Knights, Halberdiers of the twins, and Seagard Archers. With this system, these would be available in only a sixth of the provinces of the Riverlands, and only accessible to two or three players depending on several factors(Ex.- Lord Tully picks Twins and Riverrun for provinces, he gets 2 of the 3 unique unit levies). Fifteen of the provinces do not get a unique unit, and this may become a factor when new players pick their houses, possibly ignoring some provinces due to the fact they do not have a unique levy.

Edit 2 : Of course the above is not as much of an issue in regions with units not tied to specific provinces (Dornish Sand Steed Cavalry, Westerland Knights, Reachman Lances, etc.)

[Zeus Almighty]

I don't like it. It rewards a miminal amount of the provinces with a unique unit that can easily be purchased. Unless this means players are losing the ability to purchase professional troops and losing any currently purchased troops..?

Edit : A example.

The Riverlands has around 18 provinces. The three unique units of the Riverlands are Riverrun Knights, Halberdiers of the twins, and Seagard Archers. With this system, these would be available in only a sixth of the provinces of the Riverlands, and only accessible to two or three players depending on several factors(Ex.- Lord Tully picks Twins and Riverrun for provinces, he gets 2 of the 3 unique unit levies). Fifteen of the provinces do not get a unique unit, and this may become a factor when new players pick their houses, possibly ignoring some provinces due to the fact they do not have a unique levy.

Edit 2 : Of course the above is not as much of an issue in regions with units not tied to specific provinces (Dornish Sand Steed Cavalry, Westerland Knights, Reachman Lances, etc.)

The westerland knights were an overlook. Again, I'm tired. Only particular units got bonuses this is true, but most for specified reasons in cannon. And yes it may slant some players away from some places and toward others but you mean to tell me the Dornish sand steads shouldn't get an extra bonus to place a little more flavor and authenticity to it all? I have some stuff goin on for the Riverlands but I cant remember what I have right now. If it makes you feel any better my Stormland units suck all around lol

As of now you will still be able to purchase the units, this is just how the levy comps for the cities will look.

[Xion]

..I was never complaining about the bonuses the troops had. It was moreso in regards to provincial specific unique units compared to regional specific units in prevelence in the redone levy compositions. Yes, it would probably lure players to the more unique levy provinces(probably those with regional unique units) over province specific.

..and okay then.

[Lord Dread]

Personally I think the unique troops should only be avaible for special House for high costs - or the troops have to be renamed, especially in the North and the Riverlands.
For example I never hired Stark Swordsmen to my knowledge as Bolton due to their better boni in field, just because their name refers that they are the special troops of the Starks, not of the Boltons. Though some of the names are cool, they can be irritating in battle.

On the other side I can agree with Xion, though I have to admit that there will be always players, seeking their own luck with the most profitable provinces. (For example, Pyhrrus wanted me to give House Chester Brightwater Keep additional to the Shield Islands, just because of the high Ship levy.)
With or without these new unit will make no big differences.

[Trot]

What happened to manderly knights stark swordsmen and Cromagnon

[Ganbarenippon]

This is nice. Though TBH, I don't really care about the regional units so much as trying to balance out the numbers of men available in each region. I.e. increasing the levies available to The Vale The Stormlands and The North or reducing the numbers in The Reach and The Westerlands. Some fundamental rebalancing needs to be done before we worry about levy composition.

Iron Islands = Most ships but poor economy, fair(ish) but we could perhaps boost their economy a little.
The Riverlands = give them the most men, they have the crappiest starting position so fair trade.
The Crownlands = seat of the King so fair enough with it being a little weaker than other areas for balance (and cannonically the nobility there is petty at best) Plus the King gets two sets of tax income.
Dorne = desert, so sparse population but a tremendous advantage fighting in their home territory, and independent, so fair.
The Westerlands, by far the richest region (so can build all the upgrades the quickest and hire the most mercs), + large fleet and levies + wealthier vassals for higher tax = too much.
Same goes for The Reach to a lesser extent. EDIT: I'd forgotten about The Reach's superiority in cavalry.
The Vale, The North, and The Stormlands = generally middling-to-poor income and low levies or poor numbers of naval levies. The North and The Vale have the advantage of a good defensible position, but that is negated by the fact that they can simply be invaded from the sea owing to their pitiful fleet levies. The levy numbers in The North are acceptable, but The Vale is ridiculously small, and The Stormlands is not much better.Remember, these were the three allied regions that overthrew the Targaryens so they need to be beefed up. A lot.

To be clear, this is in no way a shot at anybody playing LP in any of those regions, you didn't choose the strengths after all but something needs to be done. Right now in any game as soon as Lannister and Tyrell align there is not much chance of anything else happening. (Again not the players faults) but we need to balance things for the game's sake.

[Lord Dread]

This is nice. TBH, I don't really care about the regional units so much as trying to balance out the numbers of men available in each region. I.e. increasing the levies available to The Vale and The North or reducing the numbers in The Reach and The Westerlands.

As long as I have still one of the largest armies in Westeros with one of the largest region in lore I'm fine with it.
Oh, and I will still keep my superiority in cavallery, of course.

[Nesimî]

Cro-magnon

[Pinkerton]

Let me remind you that this is for when we scrap Professional Soldiers. There have been complaints about losing the "cultural" identity of the men, by only having the levy. So this is a good way to integrate the AoR units into the game

[Ganbarenippon]

True enough mate, and sorry for taking this off on a tangent. I agree in the context of scraping professional soldiers.

[Adamat]

Maybe give people the ability to boost their standard levy up to AOR units by buying mustering fields etc?

[M. Laveur]

How about no actual special units, just units with bonuses?

So instead of Stark swordsmen you buy northern swordsmen that happen to have a +2 in w/e skill, buyable by all Northern Lords. If you want to call them Bolton Flayers or Umber warriors for RP purposes that's fine (I remember I bought some units of the most expensive cavalry back when I was still the Tyrells and renamed them my Rose Guard or something like that, just to give you an idea).

[Zeus Almighty]

Most of the names that I attached are just for flavor, nothing important. Then I switched over the AOR units from the thread to match the levy comp. I didnt add certain units like the crannogmen or the bonus for the Lannister outriders (which have bonuses in the AOR listing) because I didnt see any pertinence to the bonus. The only bonus is give the Crannogmen are +1 fighting in the marshes but that's about it. The reason why some units are bonused, and some aren't, is simple. Yes, you had to pay good money for good troops, yes the majority of the composition of forces was mostly farmers and shigiddy, but they still maintained some trained soldiers and knights also. The bonuses IMO are to reflect some regional differences which stand to reason (tyrell mounted knights/ironborn reavers). There are others, like griffon roost knights etc, that I didn't understand but were in the AOR listing so I included them. I'll get on removing the bonus for some of these ancillary troop classes now.

Just remember, you are still going to have to purchase more of these troops of you want more. It just gives cities a place to start, even if you are a stromlander like myself and all your troops suck. That's why we have money, that's why you make alliances. My philosophy, if you are at a disadvantage, play the game smarter because in the game of thrones.....

[Zeus Almighty]

How about no actual special units, just units with bonuses?

So instead of Stark swordsmen you buy northern swordsmen that happen to have a +2 in w/e skill, buyable by all Northern Lords. If you want to call them Bolton Flayers or Umber warriors for RP purposes that's fine (I remember I bought some units of the most expensive cavalry back when I was still the Tyrells and renamed them my Rose Guard or something like that, just to give you an idea).

For reasons of reasonable expectation through the cannon is why I included some of there units. Again most of what I did was just include the AOR units that we already have available for purchase and add them to the levies. My next move is trying to balance out the units as best as fairly and cannonly possible. I left the umbers and bolton units cuz I thought that the brutish/maniacal bearing of the Lords could understandably hold their men to the same standards. Ill remove the bonuses of course if its the popular consensus, but this is again in effort to eventually remove the professional troops all together without losing some regional individuality.

This is nice. Though TBH, I don't really care about the regional units so much as trying to balance out the numbers of men available in each region. I.e. increasing the levies available to The Vale The Stormlands and The North or reducing the numbers in The Reach and The Westerlands. Some fundamental rebalancing needs to be done before we worry about levy composition.

Iron Islands = Most ships but poor economy, fair(ish) but we could perhaps boost their economy a little.
The Riverlands = give them the most men, they have the crappiest starting position so fair trade.
The Crownlands = seat of the King so fair enough with it being a little weaker than other areas for balance (and cannonically the nobility there is petty at best) Plus the King gets two sets of tax income.
Dorne = desert, so sparse population but a tremendous advantage fighting in their home territory, and independent, so fair.
The Westerlands, by far the richest region (so can build all the upgrades the quickest and hire the most mercs), + large fleet and levies + wealthier vassals for higher tax = too much.
Same goes for The Reach to a lesser extent. EDIT: I'd forgotten about The Reach's superiority in cavalry.
The Vale, The North, and The Stormlands = generally middling-to-poor income and low levies or poor numbers of naval levies. The North and The Vale have the advantage of a good defensible position, but that is negated by the fact that they can simply be invaded from the sea owing to their pitiful fleet levies. The levy numbers in The North are acceptable, but The Vale is ridiculously small, and The Stormlands is not much better.Remember, these were the three allied regions that overthrew the Targaryens so they need to be beefed up. A lot.

To be clear, this is in no way a shot at anybody playing LP in any of those regions, you didn't choose the strengths after all but something needs to be done. Right now in any game as soon as Lannister and Tyrell align there is not much chance of anything else happening. (Again not the players faults) but we need to balance things for the game's sake.

Alot of that is out of my control.....for now....but i will say this, the Vale/North/Stormlands had the Riverlands as well and won but because they played it smart. the tyrells stayed out of it and the Lannisters took their sweet time, so it was really only the Crownlands fighting. And I would gladly take a smaller house and show new people how to rise to prominance

All that being said, continue kicking ideas here, Ill change what I can to make the proposal more agreeable If the Common consensus is that I need to eliminate City (not Regional) troop bonuses than I will get to work asap

[Zeus Almighty]

Edited a bit to get rid of some of the extra blanket bonuses. Lemme know what you think

[Gandalfus]

The west is supposed to have more heavy infantry, since the Lannister can afford to arm them well.