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Thread: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83, region changes on page 84!!

  1. #141

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Dol Guldur Preview added, first post!)

    I think you've earned a break after all the work you put into it lately .

  2. #142
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Dol Guldur Preview added, first post!)

    Just realized it's only been week and a half since I began

    I haven't got the White Mountains refined enough to release an in-game preview, but I can release a heightmap preview showing the different peaks.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    I am not sure how I will handle Helms Deep, and how to place it, it's peaks, the valley, the stream. Ideas and suggestions are welcome
    Last edited by FireFreak111; February 03, 2013 at 06:26 AM.

  3. #143

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Dol Guldur Preview added, first post!)

    as in this photo.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    I would put a river between two cliffs, with hollow so you can spend an army with a settlement or fort at the end of the river, which would be the glittering caves. And at the beginning of gap, the fortress of Aglarond, blocking the path. But not would be nice if it were not a city custom, that is too much work, but I give ideas xD

  4. #144
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Dol Guldur Preview added, first post!)

    Got a higher quality version here:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    But still, same thing. Thanks for pointing me to the map. It makes the Hornburg sooo small in scale when you use the maps . At this rate it doesn't look like it should even be in the type of valley vanilla has it in...

    I am not sure how I would get the Deeping Stream in, it's an extremely small river.
    Last edited by FireFreak111; February 04, 2013 at 04:54 AM.

  5. #145

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Dol Guldur Preview added, first post!)

    I believe that the strength was not very big and was situated blocking Helm's Deep. The valley of vanilla not think it was quite right ...

    for If it helps, on this page there are many maps of Middle Earth.

    http://www.elponeypisador.com/Enciclopedia/mapas.php

    There are some that are worthless, but there are some pretty good

  6. #146

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Dol Guldur Preview added, first post!)

    Quote Originally Posted by FireFreak111 View Post
    Got a higher quality version here:

    But still, same thing. Thanks for pointing me to the map. It makes the Hornburg sooo small in scale when you use the maps . At this rate it doesn't look like it should even be in the type of valley vanilla has it in...

    I am not sure how I would get the Deeping Stream in, it's an extremely small river.
    The Vale in the Vanilla is not Helm's Deep... it is the Deeping Coomb, that was a deep Valley... I is more clearly seen in the battle map:
    http://www.councilofelrond.com/wp-co...ttle_of_Ho.jpg
    Let’s keep enjoying kings and wizards. But also remember to keep them where they belong.
    Where they can do little harm.
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  7. #147
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Dol Guldur Preview added, first post!)

    I think a 1 tile valley before Helm's Deep can work. Otherwise the peaks and mountains around it can't be represented right.

  8. #148
    knight of meh's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Dol Guldur Preview added, first post!)

    Quote Originally Posted by FireFreak111 View Post
    I think a 1 tile valley before Helm's Deep can work. Otherwise the peaks and mountains around it can't be represented right.
    1 tile ..? a translation for people who don't speak mod please

  9. #149
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Dol Guldur Preview added, first post!)

    1 tile valley= a tiny valley just north before Helm's Deep settlement (it'll be the only access to it too)

  10. #150
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Dol Guldur Preview added, first post!)

    Yep, either north or east depending on how I can get it working.

    It's sort of hard to explain a tile. A river crossing for example is 1 tile.

    Update: I am working on the Misty Mountains and Angmar, and have come up with an new concept for the settlements that will replace the implementation in Vanilla, for community approval/rejection. It is an idea, and I will be happy to scrap it (no hassle at all) if it doesn't work out.

    Use this image for reference:



    Red means Pass, Black means Settlement. Pink means Possible Pass (not sure, not likely to be implemented )

    In Vanilla, the Misty Mountains is basically split through the center for ~60-70% of the entire range. Settlements are placed within, emphasis on the important passes is reduced (or the passes are even completely removed), and the width of the range is huge.

    This isn't how it is supposed to be. The Misty Mountains was originally risen by Morgoth to stop or slow down the elves on their way to the west in the First Age. The key pass over these mountains was the High Pass. It was actually two passes, the upper being more used as the lower was often controlled by Orcs. Two other known passes existed over the mountains: At the source of the Gladden River and the Redhorn Pass, at the three peaks of Moria. The only pass through the mountains was in Khazad-Dum, or Moria. The only ways around the Misty Mountains was above Angmar and at the Gap of Rohan, an important strategic pass which was a key battleground of the War of the Ring.

    Enough lecturing, time for the actual idea . The Misty Mountains is no longer split, being a singular mountain range. The ways through it are of extreme strategical importance, often forcing factions on both sides to use the Gap of Rohan to pass through, or brave the heights and assault the orc-controlled passes. Four ways will exist to get pass the Misty Mountains:

    - The High-Pass: The most important pass of them all. Whoever controls this pass controls a way into Rivendell, into the Anduin Vale and into the Angle, home of the Dunedain. The lower pass will be a castle, controlled by large amounts of Orcs. It will also be thinner (not represented on the map). The Upper Pass will be Goblin Town, ironically with the strength of a city. The Pass to Rivendell will be narrow and easy blockable but painful to traverse.
    - The Gladden Pass: This will be a smaller pass, thin (two armies side by side at max). As with the High Pass the center of it will be a chokepoint controlled by a settlement, a castle again in this case. It will be a weaker castle, but initially occupied by many orcs.
    - The Redhorn Pass: The only 'free' pass allowing an army to simply walk through it without resistance. It is easily blockable, and is based on the side of a cliff, so that a single army can block off the enemy and create hell. Basically an extremely thin, dangerous but freely traversable pass.
    - Moria: The most dangerous of all the ways through the Misty Mountains. Need's no explanation .

    There is also a fifth pass loosely under consideration:
    - Below Moria: There are two ways this can be implemented, as a full blown pass, or as a Mines of Moria settlement below Moria to add more Depth to the area. This would be an interesting site for a certain flaming guy.....
    Angmar is included with this suggestion with unblocked passes that are easily visible on it. It is based on low-mountains. There is a possible pass I am considering, which would be below Gundabad (a settlement on this map) and the start of the Mountains of Angmar. It would make it easier to traverse into Angmar, but may remove some strategic possibilities.

    There are other advantages for a unified mountain range, including AI (simpler routes through the Mountains, easier pathfinding) and Lore-wise, which are pretty easy to see.
    Last edited by FireFreak111; February 04, 2013 at 05:01 AM.

  11. #151

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Great work Fierfreak. it really fits better the lore, and montain passes will be more strategic.

  12. #152
    smoesville's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Passes look great. Will passes over the mountains look more like they go over the mountain range? In TATW vanilla all the passes looked like they were delved into the mountains which only the pass through the mountains (moria) should look like.
    Were there but a tree in this godforsaken place i would have hanged myself.

  13. #153
    Makrell's Avatar The first of all fish
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Moria should definately have more setlements. MOria, Moria Mines, and depths of moria(rebel controlled with balrog) Makes playing as khazad dum much more fun

  14. #154
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Τhat's the ideal solution IMO, and the one I had picked for RoA. Looks much better than the vanilla ranges too

  15. #155
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    @Beorn
    True dat

    @Makrell
    We can't have too many settlements cramped together, along with the Redhorn Pass, but a Moria mountain settlement and the Mines of Moria/Depths of Moria plus two forts on each end as the gates would work well for fun as the faction. I could look into more settlements, but I am not sure how that would turn out. The maximum 199 regions needs to be used well.

    @smoesville
    The Mountain Ranges are at that depth for a reason, the Strat-Map to Battle-Map translation. Basically above RGB's of 80-84 the radar map (mimimap) turns black, and the maximum height it can read is RGB 100. Meanwhile the top of a mountain is basically RGB 200-250, meaning that the passes sort of look unnatural, but have to in order to work correctly.

  16. #156

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    I think that the split of the Misty mountains showed the underground passes along the Hithaeglir. Note that all Hithaeglir settlements are under ground. And there has had to be a path connecting the High Pass to Khazad Dum, as the High pass was the continuance of the Great East Road that was built by dwarves to connect the Ered Luin Mansions with the Halls of Khazad Dum (so if the road reached the mountains at the high pass then somehow one could reach Khazad Dum from there, over ground or underground...)

    In my opinion there should be:


    The yellow ones are over mountain passes and can be crossed without being blocked by the settlements.
    The brown ones are underground passes and can only be accessed in one of the connected settlements is captured, showing thus that in order for example to enter the underground paths from the Highpass one had to cross through the Goblin Town

    And Yes I know that the Redhorn pass was north of Moria but then it would cross with the underground path...
    Let’s keep enjoying kings and wizards. But also remember to keep them where they belong.
    Where they can do little harm.
    Where they entertain us.

    In fantasies...

  17. #157
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Interesting suggestion. If this was to be done, to prevent too many settlements, a settlement like the one at the Gladden Pass would have to be in the center of the pass, thus blocking it but allowing access to the underground tunnels (like through a cross of entrances and exits). How thick would the tunnels be?

  18. #158

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Makrell View Post
    Moria should definately have more setlements. MOria, Moria Mines, and depths of moria(rebel controlled with balrog) Makes playing as khazad dum much more fun
    For me the most important is a West Gate settlement/fort !

    =FirefreakWe can't have too many settlements cramped together, along with the Redhorn Pass, but a Moria mountain settlement and the Mines of Moria/Depths of Moria plus two forts on each end as the gates would work well for fun as the faction. I could look into more settlements, but I am not sure how that would turn out. The maximum 199 regions needs to be used well.
    We could merge the eastern fort and the main settlement because, in my opinion, the East Gate is very close to residential areas .

    I don't agree with Gundabad area : the most attested pass is the one between Mount Gundabad and Grey Mountains. But great concept !
    And I think that Rubicorn Pass crossing the underground path is not a problem : we could imagine a tunnel between underground path and surface, and put two forts to defend it .
    Last edited by Thorīn II Oakenshield; February 04, 2013 at 09:11 AM.
    Sorry for my bad English ; I'm Belgian.

  19. #159

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    I like the idea. And if instead of blocking in cross the Pass Gladden will block the way south with the settlement and the way north with a fort?

    I also believe that the underground road should reach Gundabad, doing the same in High Pass that in the Gladden Pas
    Last edited by Drorin; February 04, 2013 at 08:57 AM.

  20. #160
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    The underground road going to Gundabad would kill the idea. The River Gladden will be a natural piece of the trouble entering the pass. You will have to cross the Gladden at it's natural crossings if approaching from the south. Northcomers won't have this specific problem, but then both have to cross the pass and the setlement-fort in the center. Orcs could come from the Underground tunnels to reinforce, creating issues.

    Crossing the Misty Mountains will be no easy task.

    @Thorin
    It makes sense, the Dimril Dale needs to be more important in-game, but this does have gameplay implications. It takes one step away from reclaiming Moria as Khazad-Dum.

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