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Thread: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade for 3.2 - v3.0 previews on page 83, region changes on page 84!!

  1. #161

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Last post edited for more opinions .
    Sorry for my bad English ; I'm Belgian.

  2. #162
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    I agree with the under Gundabad pass not existing, it creates a really interesting dynamic with the gap needing to be under control, then the pass into Angmar clear.

  3. #163
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    There's an alternative for underground passes, at least in theory I think

    Let's say that we want to simulate an underground pass going from the place A to place B and vice versa: We create a resource, make it appear like a cave entrance in the strat_map and we place it at the x,y of 'A'. Via campaign script, if an army stays in the resource's tile for a turn, it's moved in the x,y of 'B' and vice-versa.So, an army/character "disappears" from the place 'A' and reappears in the 'B' place.

  4. #164
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    I was thinking something like this for the Rivendell-High Pass tunnel/gap/path/thing, inspired by the Secret Forest Trails. But that IMO is much better than splitting the mountain range. Any way for the AI to handle this? Would they use it? There is room for 1 more resource without trading an existing one (if I had to, textiles would be the first to go.)

    Just want to quickly say thankyou for all the feedback, corrections, ideas and support in this thread, you all make the map a better playing experience for everyone else

    Time for sleep, in a bad habbit of going to bed at 1AM . Work is too adictive at times, as is RoosterTeeth .

  5. #165
    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    I agree on the Moria thing, it's a huge underground city that can't be taken by just 1 succesfull siege, the Dwarves could always fall back into deeper halls.
    Perhaps you could replace the stratmap model for Moria with a new one? And maybe making it 3 settlements, West Moria, East Moria, both with their own unique stratmap model, maybe a bit like the one used for Erebor to represent the peaks. You could sacrifice the "Village" resource if needed, since most of them will become real settlements anyways.
    And that Mines of Moria settlement deep in the mountains only accecible from the other 2 settlements representing the 3rd peak, which should be very close to the other 2 peaks.
    The Dimrill Dale is also important i think, and maybe something small to represent the lake where the watcher in the water lives at the West Gate of Moria.
    I don't think there should be a pass south of Moria.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Blue is the where the lakes of the dales should be, at least somewhere near it.
    Just an idea.

    And i also agree on the secret forest method for the underground tunnels, but i also doubt if the AI can handle that, even with scripts.
    Last edited by Dutch-Balrog; February 04, 2013 at 10:37 AM.

  6. #166
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    I also doubt that the AI will use it

    Regarding the passes I consider the one at Gladden Fields obsolete.

  7. #167

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    AI cannot handle them. Withmar said it in his thread. We could perhaps have another solution.

  8. #168

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Most important to me is that the AI can provide a challange :-)

  9. #169
    smoesville's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    I think i'd prefer if there was no North-South passage in the mountains, for one it doesn't look as nice and two i don't recall any mention of an 'underway' (from Warhammer) in any of Tolkien's work? I really don't see how an army could pass down the spine of a mountain range like that. Besides isn't the East-West road a product of Arnor and the travels of dwarves heading from Erebor to the Blue Mountains? Not in fact the road to Khazad-Dûm as i'm sure someone mentioned earlier.
    Were there but a tree in this godforsaken place i would have hanged myself.

  10. #170
    Makrell's Avatar The first of all fish
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    IF you can give income from hodling forts giving icome for holding the forts in moria could subsititute the more layers theme as then you can fall back and the Ai would try to take them all, as they are in his territories

  11. #171

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Quote Originally Posted by smoesville View Post
    I think i'd prefer if there was no North-South passage in the mountains, for one it doesn't look as nice and two i don't recall any mention of an 'underway' (from Warhammer) in any of Tolkien's work? I really don't see how an army could pass down the spine of a mountain range like that. Besides isn't the East-West road a product of Arnor and the travels of dwarves heading from Erebor to the Blue Mountains? Not in fact the road to Khazad-Dûm as i'm sure someone mentioned earlier.
    I posted that the East West Road was dwarf made.
    Well the Men in Naugrim (Great Dwarf Road) connected the Iron Hills to the High Pass.
    Across the pass (in almost a straight line) there is a Great Road heading eastwards towards the Ered Luin.
    I think it just logical (and always believed) that the road was the one and the same and we know that the Naugrim of the Ered Luin would often trasverse Eriador to go to Gundabad... Yet after the end of the first age and throughout the Second Age the Road would fall into disuse so that when the Numenoreans came they would repair it.

    Anyway that is how I see it...
    Yet the point remains. Even if the East Road was not originaly made by Dwarves, the Great Dwarf Road shows the same thing... it began from the Iron Hills, and ended at the High Pass... And from there? Why build a road leading to a pass that leads to empty lands? there must have been some way from there to Khazad Dum
    Let’s keep enjoying kings and wizards. But also remember to keep them where they belong.
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  12. #172
    Beorn's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    If there was a way at Anduin's Vale, Isildur's company would have used it to return in Arnor after the war of the LA.
    If there's a way at the Eriador side, by the time of LotR it should have been ruined long enough to be unusable, which looks unlikely to me.
    I don't believe that there was a way to go from Gundabad to Moria witout seeing the Sun or the stars if you ask me.

  13. #173
    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Don't forget that the Dwarves build that passage in their glory time. They also controlled most of the lands between the Anduin and the Misty Mountains. So they did not even need a North-South passage through the mountains.
    BTW i've seen no comments about my Moria suggestion.
    Please tell me your opinions.

  14. #174
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    The Gladden Pass will be small, and will remain for AI pathfinding primarily. It will be like the Redhorn Pass, except blocked by a settlement. Orcs did come and attack Isildur from the mountains.... I think....

    The space for a split range isn't really there. Some things would have to be sacrificed to fit it in. I like the idea of the Hidden resource, but it would be unbalanced if only the player could use it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch-Balrog View Post
    I agree on the Moria thing, it's a huge underground city that can't be taken by just 1 succesfull siege, the Dwarves could always fall back into deeper halls.
    Perhaps you could replace the stratmap model for Moria with a new one? And maybe making it 3 settlements, West Moria, East Moria, both with their own unique stratmap model, maybe a bit like the one used for Erebor to represent the peaks. You could sacrifice the "Village" resource if needed, since most of them will become real settlements anyways.
    And that Mines of Moria settlement deep in the mountains only accecible from the other 2 settlements representing the 3rd peak, which should be very close to the other 2 peaks.
    The Dimrill Dale is also important i think, and maybe something small to represent the lake where the watcher in the water lives at the West Gate of Moria.
    I don't think there should be a pass south of Moria.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Blue is the where the lakes of the dales should be, at least somewhere near it.
    Just an idea.

    And i also agree on the secret forest method for the underground tunnels, but i also doubt if the AI can handle that, even with scripts.
    I like the idea of new strat-map models for all this. East and West gates can have a unique one (section of a mountain with a door merging into the central model). Central Moria (Just 'Moria') should be a new model, a very tall peak, massive in size. The impassable tile can be used to prevent walking into certain parts of the model. Of course not too wide. Then once its taken, you go south to another settlement, using the current Moria model (a small peak) and it will be the Mines of Moria, with the Balrog ready to be awakened within. The lakes will be there. That is definite. Mirromere will be slightly bigger than the west lake.
    Last edited by FireFreak111; February 04, 2013 at 07:56 PM.

  15. #175

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Quote Originally Posted by FireFreak111 View Post
    The Gladden Pass will be small, and will remain for AI pathfinding primarily. It will be like the Redhorn Pass, except blocked by a settlement. Orcs did come and attack Isildur from the mountains.... I think....
    The orcs attacked Isildur were hiding in Mirkwood to Anduin watch the road and did not know of the defeat of his Lord. So thought Isildur and his host were survivors fleeing north and attacked them on the east bank of the Anduin. It explains everything quite detailed in Unfinished Tales.

    On the other hand I would not block the passes settlements unless they were subways. I would put in the passes, but leaving hollow.

  16. #176
    Dutch-Balrog's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: New Campaign Map WIP (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Quote Originally Posted by FireFreak111 View Post
    The Gladden Pass will be small, and will remain for AI pathfinding primarily. It will be like the Redhorn Pass, except blocked by a settlement. Orcs did come and attack Isildur from the mountains.... I think....

    The space for a split range isn't really there. Some things would have to be sacrificed to fit it in. I like the idea of the Hidden resource, but it would be unbalanced if only the player could use it.




    I like the idea of new strat-map models for all this. East and West gates can have a unique one (section of a mountain with a door merging into the central model). Central Moria (Just 'Moria') should be a new model, a very tall peak, massive in size. The impassable tile can be used to prevent walking into certain parts of the model. Of course not too wide. Then once its taken, you go south to another settlement, using the current Moria model (a small peak) and it will be the Mines of Moria, with the Balrog ready to be awakened within. The lakes will be there. That is definite. Mirromere will be slightly bigger than the west lake.
    Awsome!

  17. #177
    FireFreak111's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    I have made significant map progress on the content of the map (ground types), finishing the majority of Eriador, redoing the Mountains of Mordor (shape and height, as well as complexity, making sure the pass of Morgai and the chokepoint of the Isenmouthe are in), adding the passes in the Misty Mountains, adding in North Ithilien, touching up the climates and adding varying levels of fertility, as well as polishing everything. Any suggestions on these sort of things are welcome.

    @Dronin
    The settlement in the Gladden pass doesn't have to block access, but it needs to be there, or the Misty Mountain orcs won't have many settlements. The High Pass will definitely be blocked. The Redhorn Pass will be fully unblocked, no settlement. But orcs can come and attack you on the pass at any time.
    Last edited by FireFreak111; February 05, 2013 at 10:04 AM.

  18. #178
    Gallus's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    I think southern half of High Pass should stay open, it is written in FotR that Beornings were guarding it at the time of LotR.

  19. #179
    lordargento's Avatar Decanus
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    Icon10 Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Great progress FireFreak111!. I simply love your idea of making the map more accurate.
    I have a question: big islands (or groups of minor ones) like Tol Fuin, Tol Ramdal, Tol Uialgaer or the one you correctly added, Rhunaer island in the Sea of Rhune, will they have settlements, harbours and be independent regions, or they will just be part of other already existing regions?
    Now, for everything to be perfect, we only need a mod which gives accurate constructions for each faction in the game for their generic settlements (so as not to have all cities looking like vanilla´s ones), perhaps simply looking like the facilities found in the UI cards that describe them.
    Last edited by lordargento; February 05, 2013 at 03:54 PM.

  20. #180

    Default Re: Divide and Conquer: Campaign Map, Remade (Misty Mountains proposal, page 8!)

    Tol Ramdal and Tol Uilgaer are not canon, but made up by MERP.
    Tol Fuin like Himling was unsettled...
    Let’s keep enjoying kings and wizards. But also remember to keep them where they belong.
    Where they can do little harm.
    Where they entertain us.

    In fantasies...

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