Winning with Mordor

[Jojobobo]

Has anyone actually done it? I'm playing them on VH/VH right now, and I realise Mordor are a solid faction with good units, but to kill absolutely all of the good factions seems a bit far fetched; even with invasions and the like. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it could be done eventually but in only 400 turns seems a bit much; I'm on turn 60 now and though I've made headway with Gondor I have so many enemies I can't just go all out as I'd like so progress seems slow, and then I keep thinking after them I've got to kill 6 other factions.

So, does anyone have any comments or advice to share? One thing I'm considering is when I get into the Misty Mountains and start dealing with HE, the Eraidor and potentially the Dwarves is take Moria - it'll likely be kitted out and of course as all the evil factions share a common culture that problem is taken care of.

[T&D]

I have won a campiagn with them long time ago. Use nazgul's properly(witch king and khamaul)-Get rid the gondor ones then rohan.

[FC Groningen]

In order to be successful, you need to rush. You need to become big, before your rivals can grow big too, or your enemies can grow strong. Assemble your forces right away and go on campaign. Try to avoid garrison scripts by attacking gondor armies that are right outside the settlement. If you do this, both Minas Tirith and West Osgiliath can be yours in 10 turns if you're lucky. Afterwards, keep the pressure on Gondor, while you try to avoid to trigger as many scripts as possible. Defeat smaller armies to prevent them joining forces. Use your Nazgul to maximum effect.

Once you have Minas Tirith and Osgiliath, you'll notice your economy being more forgiving and you can start to recruit some more troops, while a small force could try to rush the remaining rebel settlements before Harad snatches them. This way, you cut off Harad from Gondor/enemy territory, which takes care of 1 rival, as long as you remain allied. From there, expand north at a steady pace. Hire some mercenary spiders in Dol Guldur to keep the Silvan Elves from taking it and once Gondor is down, you could perhaps start to expand. I would recommend you take Caras Caladhorn and after, Cerin Amroth first.

[DrDragun]

I've won twice on VH/VH with Mordor... I like playing with monsters. Rush down Gondor and the rest is easier (Gondor has some very wealthy settlements). To win in less than 400 turns you will need to push 2 northern fronts simultaneously, but by that stage of the game you will have infinite money. Just keep making waves of orcs and sending them forward once your economy is running well. Don't be afraid to take losses. By the time you get to Erebor and Mithlond your main stacks should have 6-10+ Olog-Hai.

When you get to large northern cities, unrest will be a major problem after conquering so move your capital to the center of the map (Edoras or even Lothlorien) and exterminate all large cities you conquer to hurry up finishing the game (you have enough money by now anyway).

[Hermes Trismegistos]

I have done it with 3.0 in 191 turns (see my last battle below).

The hard part is really only Gondor. In the beginning you will have a lot of financial problems and after your first offensives, Gondors counterattacks can be devastating. For a time I was barely clinging on and only my Nazgul saved the day. Later in the game you will progress a lot faster, you can advance with several units simultaneously and use invasions to quickly finish off the main centres of resistance. Eriador most of the time gets finished by the northern orcs anyway and the high elves rarely accomplish much either, so the dwarves are the only really worrysome late-game enemy.

[Jojobobo]

Here's something related I thought I'd try and clarify - do garrison scripts just gather existing troops from the area/other settlements or do they create new troops? Because I thought it was the former, in which case taking on Gondor's garrison script settlements isn't putting me out too much - though Mordor's forté isn't seige battles I'm essentially still harming Gondor too? I am trying to press Gondor, but unfortunately Rohan are now harrying my northern settlements which is a distraction. I've noticed that Mordor's superior numbers do deter them somewhat (though the quality of troops is usually low the numbers stop factions attacking you unless they have a full stack).

Still thanks for the advice, hopefully when Gondor are done and gone things will improve.

[Dunadd]

never tried, but from fighting against them i'd think you could sum it up with "trolls"

Even my best armies with the best elite troops in them took horrendous casualties if there were 4 units of mountain trolls/ologs/troll catapults in a stack - if you've more than 4 units of trolls in a stack i'm not sure how you could lose a battle

do garrison scripts just gather existing troops from the area/other settlements or do they create new troops?

from the games i've played as Dale i'm pretty sure they create them - AI Mordor always gets half a dozen units including some mountain trolls added to the garrison if anyone besieges the Morannon

Still thanks for the advice, hopefully when Gondor are done and gone things will improve.

Will you stop your evil! ;-)

[Wizad]

The garrison script spawns adds units to the settlement of the AI. These units are scripted, they do not come from anywhere on the map.
In the garrison script it says (for example):

if I_SettlementUnderSiege Anorien
and I_SettlementOwner Anorien = sicily
and I_CompareCounter Anorien_Siege < 1
and I_CompareCounter Anorien_Local = 0
while I_CompareCounter PT < 1
create_unit Anorien, Gondor Spearmen Mercs, num 2, exp 0, arm 0, wep 0
create_unit Anorien, Gondor Archers Mercs, num 1, exp 0, arm 0, wep 0
create_unit Anorien, Gondor Infantry Mercs, num 1, exp 0, arm 0, wep 0
create_unit Anorien, Gondor Trebuchet, num 2, exp 0, arm 0, wep 0
create_unit Anorien, Dismounted Kofm Mercs, num 2, exp 0, arm 0, wep 0
inc_counter PT 1
set_counter Anorien_Siege 5
end_while
end_if

If a faction besieges Minas Tirith, and the owner of Minas Tirith is Gondor, spawn the following units: 2 units of Gondor Spearmen, 1 unit of Gondor Archers, 1 unit of Gondor Infantry, 2 units of Gondor Trebuchet and 2 units of Dismounted Swan Knights (Kofm is short for Swan Knights I think).


You can view all of the different Garrison Script spawns in the campaign_script located here:
Medieval II Total War\mods\Third_Age_3\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign
Be sure not to change anything in that file! If you do want to change something, make a back up copy first!

[Jojobobo]

The garrison script spawns adds units to the settlement of the AI. These units are scripted, they do not come from anywhere on the map.

Thanks for the clarification. I'll scope out settlments with spies and wait until they only have a few units if they have a garrison script in the future. Do the scripts only come into play once or not (in my own example I took Minas Tirith, had it taken off me, and took it again - does the garrison scipt apply again the second time)?

[Dunadd]

based on besieging AI Mordor's Morannon / Black Gate, yes it does - any number of times you besiege it - so besieging it and then breaking off the siege is creating new troops for the enemy

[Zimmy]

No, the garrison script only activates for a settlement every 10 turns.

[Dunadd]

Helm wrote

No, the garrison script only activates for a settlement every 10 turns.

Ah right - Thanks for the correction

[Flinn]

No, the garrison script only activates for a settlement every 10 turns.

mmm I'm quite sure the garrison script activate every 5 turns when you are besieging a settlement.

I mean, it activates the first time when you press maintain siege, than if you keep besieging after 5 turns more it adds more units to the stack (provided that it is not already full).

Playing MOS during the last weeks, not sure it is exactly the same with regular TATW

Flinn

[klc123]

One of the things I dislike about the garrison script is that it can give the AI units that they shouldn't have access to yet.

^ from my experience, if you want to get around the garrison script to come degree, besiege them, wait until the last turn before the enemy has to sally out, break off the siege, then besiege again and then do the same. You will gradually starve them down, and the enemy never seems to merge units, so once it has a full stack, they will not receive the benefit of extra garrison units spawning.

[klc123]

Could a mod merge these posts?

I'm playing a game with mordor on vh/vh and the best thing to do is to keep throwing armies at those around you to pin them back and gain ground. However, I don't advocate attacking armies outside of settlements to avoid the garrison script, I think you miss out a lot on the epic battles in the custom settlements. Besides, who wants to siege Minas tirith with only a handful of weak units inside.

As others have mentioned make full use of the Nazgul, they are the best cavalry you get, just charge them in and make sure you don't leave them in melee. If you can, try to get their dread up by executing prisoners and exterminating settlements if it won't set you back economically, the extra dread makes the nazgul able to decimate entire armies almost single handed with their nazgul screech.

[Jojobobo]

Thanks for letting me know that the script does reactivate.

Well I kept on getting hammered by Rohan whilst trying to take Gondor, so I wasn't getting anywhere as I had to keep an competant money draining garrison in the cities that Rohan was interested in. I've decided to start again on VH/VH and try an unusual tactic - I'm going to give Rhun Dol Guldur, Thoronburg and Malgalad. This may seem extreme but it essentially means I only have to fight a war on one front, and as those settlements are a natural extension on Rhun's borders they should be able to garrison them in short order. Maybe it's a huge mistake but it will at least make things easier initially.

[Flinn]

I wouldn't give away those settlements if I were you, Jojo

depending on what you choosed as victory conditions (long or short) you might need all the settlements you can (60 for long if I remember well) and you have to destroy Elves too, so soon or later your going to regret this choice.

Furthermore, Dol Guldur is one of your main recruiting center (Citadel) and I would keep this settlement at least. I know that fighting against Rohan (Malgalad), Elves (Dol Guldur) and possibly Dale (Thoronburg) might be really annoying, but you have to keep in mind that your first goal is to get rid of Gondor; after this you'll have more than enough of money to field more stacks and get rid of all those pesky little flies .. Play defensively in the area of Dol Guldur (half stack led by Nazgul, becomes 3/4 stack if the Elves start to send too many troops over the river) and concentrate efforts on Gondor; possibly get and gift a settlement close the borders with Dale to Ruhn, so the Bardings will not attack you. You'll have to fight some hard battles in a row to get rid of Gondor (garrison scripts, dread stacks) but after this you'll be free to conquer the rest of the ME at your will (you'll have invasions too!).

Imo, I'll try at least to defend what I have from the beginning

Flinn

[DrDragun]

I don't take Malgalad early unless there is a Mission with good rewards (1500g or 'best units'). It is too tedious to defend for 250g income... the swamps make getting reinforcements to them take 3+ turns, and with no walls armies can instantly attack.

Focus on taking and defending Cair Andros and W Osgiliath, then fill out your southern shore line (best to get those 3 settlements before Harad). Then you only really need stacks in 3 settlements.

Dol Guldur is extremely easy to defend. Upgrade your bowyer and maintain a full garrison of archers. Do not exceed free garrison unless an enemy army is threatening. When an enemy army approaches, you can train all the blocker infantry you need within 1 turn. Just make sure you have watch towers all around the borders of Dol Guldur territory to see approaching armies and check it every turn. In the middle game get a siege shop there, catapults build in 1 turn and are ridiculous for siege defense (they kill 20 elves per shot inside the gates)

Also remember barracks can be a powerful economic building in some situations. For example Dol Guldur, you start with some units which are NOT free garrison there. So you are paying 200-300 upkeep per turn per unit. If you upgrade your barracks to make these units become free upkeep, then it can be as much money saved as building a Mining Complex if there are 2 units!