Stainless Steel Preview: Units overhaul

[paleologos]

They look great, but the helmet on the 3rd screen looks really awkward.

Which one, which row?
In what way?

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

Which one, which row?
In what way?

In the front row, the helmet seems too pointy and the eye openings also look like they are a bit too far from the actual eyes, I dont know if this is historically correct or not, im just commenting about the look.

[paleologos]

In the front row, the helmet seems too pointy and the eye openings also look like they are a bit too far from the actual eyes, I dont know if this is historically correct or not, im just commenting about the look.

I am guessing you mean the "pig-faced" bascinet. Well, the model is vanila, I just made a new skin.



They actually wore those things...
I can't imagine they enjoyed a good unobstructed vision though.
The following is a museum specimen of Churburg style harness.


PS: Thank you for the rep.... again thou art generous sire.

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

Well, if its historical, I can't really argue with it, just leave it as it is then. I imagine the vision trough it was awful.

[DramaBelli]

rep deserved, very hard, great work here

[Liberalis Bellatricus]

Very good work Paleologos !

+Rep

[baz44331]

I have to say i like your units, but the chain mail could be better i think it looks really blury. I may be able to help you out if you like.

here is a unit i textured for a submod for TATW.


you see the chain mail. this is what it should look like.

But other then that, the units look great.

[paleologos]

...but the chain mail could be better i think it looks really blury...

I know what you mean but it was the only way for me to show the "inner side" of the mail rings.
In any case, I tried many types of mail texture and I am satisfied with my final choice.
The one you show in the 3dMS screenie is nice but I have made up my mind.

Thanks to all of you who have boosted my rep, it feels good to be appreciated.

And now it is complete and for the first time -AFAIK- a partial plate model has four levels of detail, for those of you who like FPS during combat more than you like detail during the deployment phase.
Now you don't have to compromise any.

You download here:

Frankish_MAA_ug2.rar

Use them as you please, just don't sell them as your own, other than that it's OK by me if you use parts of them in models that you make.
If you include them in your game and like them, please do make the little trouble to post in this thread and add to my rep but only if you like them in-game.

For the community.

[baz44331]

you could try to adjust the UVmap man. this would fix it i think. but once your happy that all that matters really. nice work.

[_Belisarius_]

Wow. I'm looking forward to this.

[paleologos]

Wow. I'm looking forward to this.

Why do you have to "look forward to this"?
The bits and pieces that you see here are available now.
Download link at post #216.

Also, the following is totally experimental, very incomplete work.
Just meaning to ask you guys what you think of the chainmail texture?
How does it compare to what you would like to see?


The texture being tested generated some pretty severe aliasing in milkshape.
It may not show very well in the sceerie above, but in gimp it looks really promising.
Looking forward to reading some feedback, preferably the educated kind.

Always yours, P.

[Kahvipannu]

Why do you have to "look forward to this"?
The bits and pieces that you see here are available now.
Download link at post #216.

Also, the following is totally experimental, very incomplete work.
Just meaning to ask you guys what you think of the chainmail texture?
How does it compare to what you would like to see?


The texture being tested generated some pretty severe aliasing in milkshape.
It may not show very well in the sceerie above, but in gimp it looks really promising.
Looking forward to reading some feedback, preferably the educated kind.

Always yours, P.

It is improvement definitelly. I don't know if this will give you ideas, but here is how I make a lot of stuff these days, I use unit from OP as example:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Click for full view:

In the picture you see the part of the texture the whole chain-mail uses, and in the ned how the uv-map looks for that part. Basically what I do is either a.)construct the whole model from smaller groups, or b) if existing model I will break it down to smaller groups. This way I can give each "part" of the model own uv-map to that texture part, also editing weird size difference, or stretching can be edited at the same time. Once I'm happy with it, I regroup all parts as one group, now you have one group, minimal space used from texture, and good quality overall. It can be very slow process, but I think it is worth it. This way it is also super easy to change the whole look of the chain-mail, I just edit/replace that one small box in the texture-sheet.

I hope this gives you ideas, or is helpfull anyway.

[paleologos]

It is improvement definitelly. I don't know if this will give you ideas, but here is how I make a lot of stuff these days, I use unit from OP as example:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Click for full view:

In the picture you see the part of the texture the whole chain-mail uses, and in the ned how the uv-map looks for that part. Basically what I do is either a.)construct the whole model from smaller groups, or b) if existing model I will break it down to smaller groups. This way I can give each "part" of the model own uv-map to that texture part, also editing weird size difference, or stretching can be edited at the same time. Once I'm happy with it, I regroup all parts as one group, now you have one group, minimal space used from texture, and good quality overall. It can be very slow process, but I think it is worth it. This way it is also super easy to change the whole look of the chain-mail, I just edit/replace that one small box in the texture-sheet.

I hope this gives you ideas, or is helpfull anyway.

Well, that was the "educated kind" (+rep) of feedback, I 'll give you that and more.
And it does give me ideas, thanks.
Not to mention, I am glad you are back in this thread after all this time.
Sure hope you're tired of (dressing) scantily dressed, fantasy female warriors.

You started your post by saying "It is improvement definitelly."
Do you mean an improvement compaired to vanilla, or compaired to my previous model of Frankish MAA?
As I said this last skin is merely a test of a new mail texture. I am not of a set mind about it as it is now.


With regard to your model/skin, I don't mean to put down your work, it is very hard work indeed, but I do have my objections:

If they are crossbowmen, I believe -given my research- that they are too heavily armoured. They are supposed to be skirmishers after all.
If they are sergeants they are still heavily armoured, as heavily as knights proper.

Traditionally, mailed knights would don a long sleeve hauberk on top of an aketon, that would go as low as just above the knee joint (but not lower as it would hamper movement),
a pair of mail hoses that would go as high as half the way between the knee joint and the groin,
mail muffles for the hands and a coif for the head and nap of the neck and all that topped with a helm.

Examples given:




Sergeants on the other hand would, in most of cases, be armoured with an aketon and a short sleeve hauberk and helmet and they would be expected (sometimes even instructed) to fall back, when things would get too tough for lesser men, in order to preserve themselves than die needlessly.
At their time the expectations that command had of a soldier's valor and persistence in the face of the enemy were much more correlated to the amount of armour they used than the training they had or their "pedigree".
The troops you show would be expected to slug it out to the bitter end, shoulder to shoulder with true knights.

With regard to the mail texture itself, it seems as if it is streched horizontally.
This is how a chainmail hauberk looks like when it is streched by gravity:




Maybe I am too meticulous for the average gamer but I still hope that my contribution is of substance.

[Kahvipannu]

I think it is improvement over your earlier version, I posted that post hoping maybe I can give you ideas with uv-mapping to make it more "thick", which would imo make it better.
And no, I don't think your too meticulous, feedback is always good. It is just hard to give answer for something that isn't re-presentative of possible final product, more of an announcement "something like this we had in mind". But I'll try my best:

Regarding crossbow-men, it was done mainly for the new quivers, and crossbows, there is no way telling if they will be in the roster, and at what form for Crusaders. About the gear, there is sources for them like this, but I'm not much into the research side of things.

That picture is from Crusader spearman, regarding helmets I have currently bunch load of variations for helmets for them, "light with open ones, heavy for closed "masks", and cavalry with full helmets. But all this is subject that can change. These are also early era un-upgraded units, can't say much more at the point. For the sergeants, I'm not sure if there will be much of them for Crusaders, don't take my word on that tought... But regarding gear and preview pics, if something isn't done by that point, it isn't there, and placeholders exist.

The leg thing I am aware of, it is something I no doubt had in mind to change to how it should be, it didn't make it there when preview was done, but I haven't fixed it yet up to date either. I might do it at some point, but there is prioritationing (is that a word? lol) to do at times where and when to put time to something. Chain-mail texture I might have there still flipped, I'm not sure what "version" of the unit I opened with MS I have few different chain skins, I'm not sure yet what to use.

And who would get tired of dressing up fantasy chicks But on serious note I have done males, and f.ex. some skeleton units and such in the past too, but I guess it's the chicks people will remember from me But yeah, doing semi-realistic medieval stuff is quite cool indeed.

[paleologos]

The screenshots posted here were taken without any improvement on the texture or the UV mapping of the model in post #219, except for a lengthening of the undergarnment.
A hurried implementation though, still a WiP, I just wanted to see how they would look in-game.



Looking forward to reading what you guys think about them.

[Kirila the Kitten]

Well ,this is some ULTRAMEGAGIGAULTIMATESUPERALPHAOMEGABETADELTANITROUBER stuff over here...I can't wait to make an AAR from these...

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

Well ,this is some ULTRAMEGAGIGAULTIMATESUPERALPHAOMEGABETADELTANITROUBER stuff over here...I can't wait to make an AAR from these...

You're going to have to wait quite a while then unfortunately.

[valky]

Byz need to be regulated to get a common recruitment time for all their OP units, seriously 0.5+ unit/turn is just ridiculous - either as AI or player faction. The other eastern faction are typical limited to 1 or 2 special or good units that can be built that way, but not Byz. Heavy sword/spear/cav spam...all the way up to 0.87 units/turn; that is just messed up or someones' FOTM faction.

It wouldn't bother me that much, if am not playing a faction in close vicinity and being at war right away. But those units can compete even with units, which are getting unlocked 1300+ or by that time, they usually have gold-experience anyway and are on par with european knights.

Ah, and give Cuman a decent late heavy cavalry unit as well ^^ everyone gets some boyars, knights, thingies and stuff...but that faction is getting stuck to like 3 core-units; which though, ain't that bad...but the lack of a decent late cav 'd be really appreciated. (or give them their friggin' maces/axt stuff, as they are supposed to have in that age!)

[slightly drunken ^^ no offense meant...just pissed* me off slightly]

[paleologos]

Excuse my... French WiP.

[Andreson]

Excuse my... French WiP.

No, on the contrary, it is amazing!
You are doing grand work here and I would like to thank you and the entire team for the work you have done because this is a work of art that brings peace into my life, without of which... it would never be the same. Thank you!