Second rebellion; had 120, lost 80 provinces

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Thanks to Paladin' for that comprehensive post; I was hoping a few more would wade in, but perhaps I can generate a little more....

Your 'tweak' of disabling the 'Money Cap' is a little mod that hasn't been tested, but is something I have been suggesting to the Team that it might now be considered; especially with all the work they have done in controlling the money supply in the first place. If the 2nd Rebellion can be properly fixed (although my personal wish is that we should change it to something a bit more 'realistic' (as indeed you note and my thoughts are similar)), then removing the Cap would allow the player to 'save up' for such 'unforeseen' circumstances. There are other options as well.

I'd appreciate any more thoughts......

[Paladin247]

Lord Tedric,

You're entirely welcome; I enjoyed writing it actually.

Thought we had seen the last of large rebel formations, but lost a legion last night to two rebel armies south of Thapsus. We saved the eagle and won the battle but the assault by the first army broke the line and it was ugly thereafter. Vth Macedonica down to three plus cohorts. Then two more armies showed up there next GT coming from the east; where are they getting all these guys?

So you're a mogul hereabouts, what happened to our old server?

[ur-Lord Tedric]

.....
So you're a mogul hereabouts, what happened to our old server?

The short answer - I know nothing....

As I get used to it, I'm finding it better - but certainly had a real downer on it the first few days. Change - I'm too old for change!

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Thanks to both of you, valuable points. I would still wish to hear from anyone who knows exactly how many settlements rebelled from the total obtained. The reason I'm asking is that there is a 2nd Trigger that only fires when the number of settlements owned drops below 70. I have therefore wondered if, for example, a player has 120 settlements when the rebellion happens and only 45 then rebel, then that trigger won't fire - and that would be a problem to address.

The lack of money and Governor issue is also rather important - as there's a whole other section of the script that's supposed to ensure that the Roman player always has money in that circumstance - but which doesn't seem to cover or deal with the problem. We will find and fix it!

[Pedro el Cruel]

There was a misunderstanding. I think Palladin plays 2.1 whereas I was playing 2.5. This means that I put no general or family member into an rebell-city, because of the rebellion-bug. If I`d put them inside, they would have become traitors next round. With 2.5 I had no money-problems at all and had enough governors and fm´s waiting in my new capital Salonae: because of the bug.

[tungri_centurio]

i had 100 citys and first turn in rebellion 60 rebeled 2turn 15 rebeled+ had 5 field generals lost ther +10 loyalty.lucky ive seen that and put them out of my legions witch probably also become rebel stacks iff i let that field general in.if i retake a city and put fm in town next turn he lost all his loyalty,influence and rebeled.i have no money to recruit a new army,have no income and lost 199000 evry turn.but its fun. i play 2.5

[Paladin247]

Legion Tracking Cpgn2.zip

We are now in 748 AUC having regained more than half of the lost empire. Rebels still hold three provinces in Spain and Africa from Lepsis Magna east. On the eastern European front they continue to hold Tyras, Piroboridava and Byzantion. The first two I am leaving alone as buffers vs. the Greeks and Byzantion as a buffer vs. Armenia neither of which we can deal with right now. Debt now stands at 1.2 million Denari with income at 120K+ so we should be in the black in ten GT or so.

I've attached my current legion tracking sheet. I have used it to keep track of legion leadership, readiness and location. The readiness color codes are green for a full legion, light green for one that is down no more than two cohorts, yellow for down up to four cohorts, orange down six and red for not battle ready. Where legion leadership reads PP that means the Primus Pilus is commanding. You'll see all the aux cohorts are in terrible shape; most remnants are annotated as filling out depleted legions. Most of the fully manned legions are along the Rhine/Danube border w/ the Cimbri who have massed four armies thereon. We have no plans to invade beyond this border any time soon. What's over there doesn't appear worth having for the price of the irreplaceable casualties it would cost. If they want to walk into our artillery fire at the crossings, they can go for it.

Plans are to retake the three Spanish provinces and Lepsis Magna then stand pat and wait to get into the black financially. Then re-train the legions and recruit governors, spys and assasins. When that is stabilized, retake Egypt and eliminate the buffer states.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Therefore, Master Paladin, have any of the settlements you've re-taken re-rebelled?

[Paladin247]

Therefore, Master Paladin, have any of the settlements you've re-taken re-rebelled?

None yet. However, I have had to strip off legion units to supplement garrisons in unhappy settlements. I've tried to keep what governors I have left in the most restless places, but often that isn't enough even with taxes set at low. Mostly I think it's a function of some critical structure, market, hospital, aqueduct, etc., that was destroyed when we re-conquered and have no way of rebuilding until we get back in the black financially. Last night we got the debt under a million denari and re-took Lepsis Magna altho it cost heavily. IXth Hispana was besieging and the garrison sortied after one GT. I had several legions about who could have pitched in, but elected to let the IXth handle it. They won, but got handled in turn. Garrison was huge, 3400; IXth lost five cohorts in heavy street fighting; it wasn't pretty.

[Taelok]

None yet. However, I have had to strip off legion units to supplement garrisons in unhappy settlements. I've tried to keep what governors I have left in the most restless places, but often that isn't enough even with taxes set at low. Mostly I think it's a function of some critical structure, market, hospital, aqueduct, etc., that was destroyed when we re-conquered and have no way of rebuilding until we get back in the black financially. Last night we got the debt under a million denari and re-took Lepsis Magna altho it cost heavily. IXth Hispana was besieging and the garrison sortied after one GT. I had several legions about who could have pitched in, but elected to let the IXth handle it. They won, but got handled in turn. Garrison was huge, 3400; IXth lost five cohorts in heavy street fighting; it wasn't pretty.

Screenshots man! For the love of God, screenshots! :-)

[SonofaBooyah]

Wow this sounds mighty interesting. I think I have to get myself this mod.

[tungri_centurio]

can you let a FM in a retaken rebel city managing things?? do they not become rebels than??
iff i place a FM in a retaken city next turn he loses all its loyalty,iff i let im in one extra turn my
city turns bleu again,iff i take im back out he has the loyalty back.do you play 2.5 paladin?

[Paladin247]

Tungri, no I won't play 2.5 until they fix the repeated rebellion bug. I play 2.1a.

[tungri_centurio]

ah ok i thought so,so 2.1a is not bugged only having major money issieus witch are not that bad, in 2.5 i got small money problem but after retaking spain,greece and italia it had back lots of money to spend for new legions.in italia i had to deal with 4 late preatorian legions(2 of them gold armor and chevrons)+5 other numbered legions. good luck with your campaign

[Paladin247]

Here is our empire in 753 AUC, 23 years after the start of the rebellion. And we are now BACK IN THE BLACK! It's been so long since I had money to spend that I had to think a bit about prioritizing. We spent the first influx of cash on recruiting governors for unhappy provinces and repairing critical damage in provinces that got crunched when we reconquered. There's still more of both to do.

When the rebellion started, the army consisted of 25 legions and nine aux cohorts, all at or near full strength. The aux cohorts, with one exception, are all gone with their remaining fragments filling in depleted legions. Of the legions, three have been destroyed, three are at full strength, six are down some, but still battle ready and the rest are at around half strength. So as a rough estimate, we've suffered more than 50% casualties. To date, our forces have killed 227,329 Roman Rebels and we're not done yet as you can see. For those scoring at home, that equates to about 81 legions worth. So our lads haven't done badly considering.

In NE Macedonia the rebels still hold Tyras and Piroboridava which buffer us somewhat against the Greeks who still pester our limes at Histrya where the undermanned Ist Adiutrix and XXIst Rapax have been combined. To the SE rebels hold Byzantion which is our buffer vs. the Armenians. They have about half a stack there and make feints but then retreat. We can't tangle seriously w/ either Greece or Armenia until we've retrained the legions, so these buffer settlements will remain undisturbed for the foreseeable.

In Africa we have four legions in various states of repair all marking time east of Lepsis Magna with two full legions enroute from re-conquered Spain.

Plan is to stand pat until the legions are substantially retrained. Spending will concentrate on that and recruiting more governors, spys and a few assasins altho I find those very difficult to get trained to any decent level of effectiveness before they get killed themselves.

Once retraining is complete which will take a while, plan is to concentrate on retaking Egypt to the Nile.

[iWarsaw]

Awesome campaign, Paladin. I'm playing 2.5 as Rome, but I'm thinking of switching nation to avoid the 2nd rebellion. I don't want to put in tons of time to have my game breaks. Still don't know what race to play besides Rome. Rome seems like the main race to Roma Surrectum as. My own campaign went badly. I expected into Macedon, and only captured one region. I went west into where Spain now is and captured a single region. Gallaeci, and Carthage pushed me out though. Macedon pushed me back out as well. Barbarians traveled straight through Italy down into Rome but were intercepted and destroyed. I am pushing back out on both sides again which is probably a very bad choice. Gallaeci, and Carthage are now at siege with me again in Spain. With each turn I am able to send reinforcements to Spain. If I continue my Rome campaign I will be first ordering a genocide of all Gallaeci Citizens. Reading Paladin's campaign really makes me want to continue my Rome campaign. Things aren't going to well, but it does feel historic. Roman glory can not be denied!

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Well done indeed - especially for persevering. This is an excellent chance for the Team to review the construct and it does show, even though I myself don't like the current, somewhat artificial and overly scripted style.

Most importantly, it would be great if you can continue to achieve the 130 settlement victory condition - without the rebellion re-occuring.

[Pedro el Cruel]

Well done indeed - especially for persevering. This is an excellent chance for the Team to review the construct and it does show, even though I myself don't like the current, somewhat artificial and overly scripted style.

Most importantly, it would be great if you can continue to achieve the 130 settlement victory condition - without the rebellion re-occuring.

I just want to insist a second time: If you want some investigations for the development of 2.6 you need a roman player of 2.5 not 2.1a, like Palladin is. In the 2.1a version the loyalty-system was not working and none of your governors revolted. Instead the game spawned new generals for the rebells. In 2.5 something has been changed, so you got treacherous governors and provinces that rebell again and again without an end. So the future work has to quit the rebellion-bug of 2.5. Am I right?

[Paladin247]

Lord Tedric, thanks for the kind comments. We shall persevere. From the power graphs it appears the Armenians have been the beneficiaries of our recent unpleasantness and have become very powerful. In our pre-rebellion battles vs. them around Byzantion they proved pretty fearsome. We had to keep four legions at hand just to field a front of two with all the losses; seemed like we were just starting to wear them down when the rebellion hit. For now, best they stay behind the Rebs at Byzantion.

iWarsaw, for this campaign and its predecessor, I immediately evacuated the settlements at Emporiae and Dyrrhachium by sea and returned those troops to Italy while destroying whatever structures I could to get the money (not much as I remember). The logistics of supporting especially Emporiae seemed too daunting to deal with while also confronting the Cathagininans in Italy. Plus tactically I tend to be pretty conventional; I like contiguous lines of defense. Altho I've read some threads where folks have held on to them successfully.


BabJones, I've attached a fresh blank of the scoresheet I've been using. I can't take credit for developing it; I downloaded it originally from the SPQR forum when I was playing that mod. I've tweaked it, but only a little. After unzip, you have to specify to open it with Excel Spreadsheet otherwise you get a bunch of machinecode. Enjoy.

[Paladin247]

All, there's a problem w/ the kill sheet; for some reason it won't allow ELS as the means to open. I'm going to try to figure it out, but in the meantime here's the link to the original which also has instructions.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-Tracking-V2-0

As I remember, most of my tweaks consisted of changing background colors and faction names to bring it into agreement w/ RS2 vice SPQR.

Then the one reference in this link is an improved version and may be the one I actually went with; sorry for the confusion.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ight=killsheet