STEAM RTW 2 or NON STEAM RTW 2 version.. that is the question

[magpie]

While it seems we are stuck with this steam system because it makes the game producer,s happy?
Does anyone not find it strange, Reading all the comments on how to play the game once installed, and that seems another story in its own right.
With the amount of loops one has to jump through to play the game.
Disable this or that on your computer, Play in offline mode in case an update starts.
Oh we have the benefits of a friends community (big deal) plus adverts.
So when did the gaming community find that buying a DVD, Putting it in to the drive and installing, then just playing the game without disabling computer functions was a huge hassle?
O'Dear the hassle of patches, You have to go online under the old system and download and install them is an argument for the benefits of the new system.
So the new system does not go online to download?
It seems as customer,s we have become a bunch of manipulated sheep.

[daniu]

While it seems we are stuck with this steam system because it makes the game producer,s happy?

Well the development team uses quite a few features which come with Steam, speeding up development and freeing up resources. Consequently, the developer has more time to implement other, new features instead of having to reinvent the wheel, as well as fixing bugs.
So you might not notice it explicitly, but yeah it does benefit the customer. Some of the stuff we're talking about after the game is released would not have made it if it hadn't been for Steam.

With the amount of loops one has to jump through to play the game.

Yes clicking two buttons is a downright obstacle course.
Don't know what you have to disable on your computer to play, I don't disable anything and game works just fine.

[TheFra]

While it seems we are stuck with this steam system because it makes the game producer,s happy?
Does anyone not find it strange, Reading all the comments on how to play the game once installed, and that seems another story in its own right.
With the amount of loops one has to jump through to play the game.
Disable this or that on your computer, Play in offline mode in case an update starts.
Oh we have the benefits of a friends community (big deal) plus adverts.
So when did the gaming community find that buying a DVD, Putting it in to the drive and installing, then just playing the game without disabling computer functions was a huge hassle?
O'Dear the hassle of patches, You have to go online under the old system and download and install them is an argument for the benefits of the new system.
So the new system does not go online to download?
It seems as customer,s we have become a bunch of manipulated sheep.

While I agree in an ideal world it would be optional I cannot agree people are sheep for using.

The fact is for the vast majority it makes things easier. I know somebody on here is going to say this and that but from people I know personally, not some random on the internet, every single one prefers steam and says it makes their lives easier. I appreciate that my friends and I are probably the target demographic but there is a reason for that. We're the people that buy most games.

Given the choice I will pick a steam version of a game. I've never had to jump through hoops to play my games.

I install it once and thats it. I dont need to play in offline mode to stop updates, I can tell it not to auto update via a setting. I don't need to be online to play, only once during installation. It IS easier than putting a disk into the drive each time I want to play a game. It IS easier to patch. Is it a lot easier? Maybe not for me (for some people and patching I'd say yes) but it is easier and I prefer it.

To re-iterate I agree in an ideal world it would be optional, but if its one or the other I'd choose steam and its not because I'm a sheep it's because I like it.

[AngryTitusPullo]

A paying customer, which involves freewill in the first place before one being a customer.

[MrBoBo1]

Steam reduces my problems and gives a bunch of great benifits. Now sure how that makes me a sheep. Been pc gaming since well before 1993 and thanks to stuff like this it's easyer and more user freindly than ever.

[ElvenKind]

Steam reduces my problems and gives a bunch of great benifits. Now sure how that makes me a sheep. Been pc gaming since well before 1993 and thanks to stuff like this it's easyer and more user freindly than ever.

All that being easier and user friendly is great, but, you are giving your hard earned money for a game which can be taken away by a single mouse click... How much will R2TW cost, 70-80 $ ? And you don`t get to own a physical DVD with that game on it. That kind of things makes a customer sheep, and it feels like having a slap in your face. That is not OK IMO.

[flippingdesks]

All that being easier and user friendly is great, but, you are giving your hard earned money for a game which can be taken away by a single mouse click... How much will R2TW cost, 70-80 $ ? And you don`t get to own a physical DVD with that game on it. That kind of things makes a customer sheep, and it feels like having a slap in your face. That is not OK IMO.

I would guess the price to be at most £40, about $60. But that isn't the main problem with your argument.

How can a game be taken away from you with a single mouse click? Once you buy a game on steam you own the game forever. The only way you could get rid of it is if you burnt every piece of electronic equipment you own and live in a mud house for the rest of your life.

[TheFra]

I think his argument is that valve could disable your steam account and you would then loose all your games. I personally dont think thats very likely but I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong!

[ElvenKind]

I would guess the price to be at most £40, about $60. But that isn't the main problem with your argument.

How can a game be taken away from you with a single mouse click? Once you buy a game on steam you own the game forever. The only way you could get rid of it is if you burnt every piece of electronic equipment you own and live in a mud house for the rest of your life.

Wrong mate, you do not own steam game, you rent the game`s license. Maybe steam has DRM free games, but I don`t think they are AAA titles.
With non steam boxed game you kinda own the copy of the game, it is on a disc you payed for, and that disc is your property now.

Valve can take away your games with single mouse click by suspending your account as TheFra said, and they can do it without even giving you an explanation for that suspension.
You obviously haven`t noticed that part in steam`s Terms of Service. ( sections: 2.A, 4., 7.C, 10.B and 10.C , others are good to read too.. that is, if you are interested in knowing what rights you have.. and if you even have them). GOG has similar Terms of Service, but, you get to keep your games.

[PlacidDragon]

Maybe steam has DRM free games, but I don`t think they are AAA titles.
With non steam boxed game you kinda own the copy of the game, it is on a disc you payed for, and that disc is your property now.

They do, although as you say, they are not triple A titles. Again Paradox games is a good example. You buy the game on Steam, and install it.

After install, you dont need Steam to run it. You can in fact copy the game to a different folder or even a memory stick without any problems. The only thing you need Steam for after purchase is patching.

[daniu]

Wrong mate, you do not own steam game, you rent the game`s license.

Actually, that's true for all games. Not that all games enforce it.
But the more evil anti-DRM measures (e.g. Starforce) force you to install driver-level verification software. There's really nothing preventing them from putting in code like "if currentDate > Feb2014 then dontRunGame". Obviously they'd never do that because a) they don't have a right to (the license to use the game is unlimited after all) and b) it would create a public outcry they can't risk.

It's really pretty much the same with Steam. Yes they could lock you away from your games if they'd so choose, but really, why on earth would they? Or they could go bankrupt and all servers disappear, but I don't see that happen any time soon, and I trust them far enough that they (i.e. Valve) would provide a solution to fake a server access locally so you can still play your games, at least as much as I trust the driver-level software not to contain the selfdestruct code.
In fact, I highly suspect they already perform actually planning for that scenario and would not be surprised if they had software or at least the required documentation for it in place already.

[kikokyle]

Steam reduces my problems and gives a bunch of great benifits. Now sure how that makes me a sheep. Been pc gaming since well before 1993 and thanks to stuff like this it's easyer and more user freindly than ever.

gaben in sig brah
respeck

[MrBoBo1]

I'v lost most the physical games I have owned since 2004 yet the games I purchased back then on steam still exist and have been updated with content and graphics. It's pretty awsome.

[ElvenKind]

I'v lost most the physical games I have owned since 2004 yet the games I purchased back then on steam still exist and have been updated with content and graphics. It's pretty awsome.

I know how that made you feel.
I lost just one game since 1992, Warlords of Battlecry... Searched the whole damn house for it.

I am just going to give a big huge hug to the rest of my boxed games...

[TheFra]

I know how that made you feel.
I lost just one game since 1992, Warlords of Battlecry... Searched the whole damn house for it.

I am just going to give a big huge hug to the rest of my boxed games...

Haha

Well with steam I've never lost any games. I guess that's 1-0 to steam?

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

I know how that made you feel.
I lost just one game since 1992, Warlords of Battlecry... Searched the whole damn house for it.

I am just going to give a big huge hug to the rest of my boxed games...

I have just lost stronghold 2! I cant install the damned thing.
But I Can buy it on steam, but im going to wait it to hit the sales.

[Clock]

Many games today, games that do not even require the Steam platform, still require some form on online activation and key code authorization. These codes can often only be registered once, to a single user or account depending on the platform. This leaves even non-steam physical media essentially worthless and unable to be sold on. I remember a time when there was a fairly large second hand market for PC games. Now there is none. Times have changed, and if the rumors are to be believed, the console market is also moving in this direction.

As others have pointed out, however, the concept of ownership has not changed significantly during this transition. Even in the past, you were still only purchasing a license to use the software in your possession. Yes, you had more options to transfer on or sell that license, but you never 'owned' that software in the literal sense. And certainly not in the way some people seem to believe that Steam and similar platforms remove 'ownership' from its users.

I agree that it would be good for users be able to trade licenses via Steam. I'm not sure the Publishers would agree, but I think it would be more beneficial to them in the long term. Games are becoming increasingly 'ongoing' developments, compared to in the past. The 'base' game of today is often only the framework upon which more content is developed and then released. Publishers and developers now have access to platforms which enable them to support and release additional content for titles in a way they've never had before. This has resulted in a lot of heated debate about the quality, pricing, and time frame of releasing such content.

But additional content is nothing new to us. In the past, expansion packs were fairly common, although I feel people look back a little too fondly upon them now. Very often, expansion packs could be overpriced and shallow in content. Patches were infrequent and often difficult to source - I know I had to buy magazines several times in order to get patches from cover discs! Yes, imagine that! Paying for patches!

Now, large expansion packs are rare, or simply renamed as DLC, a term which can refer to anything as extensive as the FotS standalone, to something as small and largely cosmetic as the controversial Blood Pack. I've said before that DLC should always be judged on the quality of its content, but this isn't really about DLC, so I won't get into that now, only to say that platforms like Steam have enabled developers to support their games post-release far, far easier than in the past, rolling out updates simultaneously for all users (unless they opt-out) and of course, releasing new content - which in turn gives a financial base for developers to continue post-release support.

I think I said a long time ago in this same thread that, even with the choice of a steamworks version, and a non-steamworks one, I would still choose Steam. That's not because I'm a 'sheep'. I'm very capable of deciding how and when to spend my own money, thank you! But I would choose Steam because it offers me too many benefits to forgo for another version - another version that would undoubtedly ALSO require online activation (probably a single use code too), as well as some form of patch/content delivery - so even those without fantastic internet (and believe me, mine isn't great either) would still face large patch downloads.

And here we see the benefits of Steam to a developer in terms of allowing them to spend less time and resources building platforms which are already integrated into Steam - platforms they don't require dedicated teams to maintain, repair, troubleshoot etc... I know people will say it was far simpler in the old days. Buy a game, pop it in the drive, and away you go! And it was! I don't disagree with that! (But it certainly wasn't all rosy either - as I said, post-game support could be terrible, patches rare and hard to find, crappy expansions etc)

But we've left those days behind now, and developers like CA have to keep up with the rest of the pack or risk falling behind. Steam has proved profitable for them, and ultimately that's what matters. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say Steam has had a big hand in rejuvenating the PC platform. It, and platforms like it, have certainly changed the way we play our games, sometimes not always for the better, I agree, but overall, I think it's been beneficial to us as players. I think we're still in a transition period, where developers and publishers are trying to find their feet on these new distribution platforms, trying to find the right balance between profit and a long-term (because games are a long term, ongoing investment now) happy user-base.

Remember the reaction to Bethesda's Horse Armor DLC? But they learned from that experience, and so has Steam. Steam has evolved extensively since it launched, largely thanks to the feedback of its users. It probably won't ever be perfect, not for everyone, but I think its success speaks for itself, and it certainly isn't due to 'sheep' blindly supporting it either.

[magpie]

Just thought I would bring this little question up.
Steam/CA update patches, Looking through the various technical forms it would seem that customer,s who buy a disk set some time after the initial release.
Are going to have a lot of grief installing their game from the disk set.
So it would appear you have two windows of opportunity with a disk set install, Buy the game at release or wait for a gold disk set with all the patches some time in the future.?
I would like to be sure on this as after an 18 month battle with my broadband supplier and the company that owns the land lines, finally I have got a decent service speed.

[AngryTitusPullo]

Buying the game with disk months after the game is released will make you need to download GBs of patces (if there any) so if one have a bad internet connection then either buy on release date or wait when Gold version is released.

If you have a good and stable internet speed then no worries except not forgetting making payment to your ISP provided every month. You don't want your internet blocked when CA released new patches and you forgot to set Steam offline.

[magpie]

Thanks Lesta, I was thinking its better not to wait to long if one is going to buy the game.
Regarding internet speed, finally got a 5 Mb download speed after a lot of hassle with provider,s.
Not the fastest in the world but a lot better than the 0.8 Mb they had me stuck with for the past 18 months.
regards.