TRUE SAMURAI final

[Fra70]

remember FATIGUE that is now a big key to victory ..

if a unit of samurai try to climb a wall its true that they get only 5-6 deaths by arrows ( and i think that is pretty historical ..remember medieval knights that were looking like porcupines at the end of a battle ? ) ...so they climb in 70 ...so add another 4-5 kills by falls ....they dey slaughter the archers ( if the defender was so silly to not swap them with a melee unit ) ....so at the end we have around 55-57 very tired samurai and maybe they have to start again against a second level of walls of face some fresh samurai retainers ...but even if they will have to face 100 ashigaru in pikewall formation they will still win but they will be in very bad shape and so tired that they will become useless .

Regarding big AI samurai armies i will give it a big look in my playtesting ...if this happen too often i will reduce the bonus money for AI factions .

[Fra70]

NEw stats for special clan units ( and a complete visual change )

Shimazu Katana -1 armor +5 Melee defence
ODa Ashigaru various changes somethimes a +1 in morale or armor or melee attacks
Uesugu monks ( that now look much less as monks ) +5 charge
Takeda Cavalry +1 morale +2 Vs Cavalry
Date No dachi +2 armor +1 morale
Chosokabe archers +5 acc +5 reload +5 ammo -2armor -1 MA
Otomo gunners +5 acc +2 armor

of course every unit have more cap space

things to do before release of version 2

- reowrking diplomacy between Oda-Togukawa+Imagawa ( a pain ... ) -tomorrow
- changing armor variants for each clan special units ( quite fast ) -today
- minor tweaks regarding UI cards ( very fast)
- testing it a bit

so we are getting very close ... the problem is of course is the diplomacy thing , it can work in a few hours or it can never work properly and i will have to set back to neutrality for everyon .
Anyway a release for sunday is very probable .

[VENNONETES]

Bravo!

[VENNONETES]

Alé

[Fra70]

Ciao shinxari !!

Unfortunately as you know the historic implementation is quite difficult ...ive tried to make a realism injection into the Shogun 2 gameplay
To make an adequate historical implementation one should be able to follow , for example , the development of armors ,but i can only make a realistic refresh , i cant follow the transitions .I could do that more modern building do more modern units ( connectin blacksmiths as a prerequistite for newest units ) but that would require 3-4 versions of the same units ...its an immense work
My improvemente are then much more simple ..For example ive removed the hotoke-do from takeda units since they were disappeared earlier than the development of that armor ....Or for example ive removed the mogami do from the shimazu because i dont think they were arrived at the other side of japan .
Other social implementation would require a much more deep work ( hazbones is trying something like that ) and a much bigger staff ( but a big staff delay things alot ) ....even in this case ive tried to insert little drops of realism like the minor clans offering troops in their regions or haveing divided much more the attitude and characteristics of samurai and ashigaru units .
Btw feel free to say which points could be refined more ( even as language ) or on which ones we can focus for the 3rd version of the mod and we will see what i can do

[ShinXari]

Ciao shinxari !!

Unfortunately as you know the historic implementation is quite difficult ...ive tried to make a realism injection into the Shogun 2 gameplay
To make an adequate historical implementation one should be able to follow , for example , the development of armors ,but i can only make a realistic refresh , i cant follow the transitions .I could do that more modern building do more modern units ( connectin blacksmiths as a prerequistite for newest units ) but that would require 3-4 versions of the same units ...its an immense work
My improvemente are then much more simple ..For example ive removed the hotoke-do from takeda units since they were disappeared earlier than the development of that armor ....Or for example ive removed the mogami do from the shimazu because i dont think they were arrived at the other side of japan .
Other social implementation would require a much more deep work ( hazbones is trying something like that ) and a much bigger staff ( but a big staff delay things alot ) ....even in this case ive tried to insert little drops of realism like the minor clans offering troops in their regions or haveing divided much more the attitude and characteristics of samurai and ashigaru units .
Btw feel free to say which points could be refined more ( even as language ) or on which ones we can focus for the 3rd version of the mod and we will see what i can do

Of course i understand and as i've said i'm not an "historical fanatic" who wish all the details being true to history at 100x100% (In truth i wasn't even aware of those details regarding the armor of the Takeda and the Shimazu, my knowledge still isn't so deep unfortunately). But there is something that has always bothered me regarding Shogun 2 and that is the power of the Teppous, or Tanegashima...in short the arquebuses. I remember that firearms at that time, being smoothbore and being relatively crude, weren't known for their precision and became truly effective only when used in great quantities, especially in the hands of Ashigaru. The firearms of the vanilla game are really too precise and too deadly... especially compared to the ones of Medieval 2 wich, in my opinion, were far more realistic.
Maybe it's a problem due to the fact that the engine of Shogun 2 is the one of Empire and Napoleon (wich also shows pretty OP firearms) but i would really like to see such weapons less precise and maybe a little more "morale breaking".

[Fra70]

I know iam not an idot in history. Maybe i had not expressed clear. I know about the siege battles in european history. What i meant was some kind of heavy knight like the Gothic-knights and in a way like in shogun to were they climb the walls with their hands

ehehe i know i was joking ...still i think that the climbing thing was only relative to small walls ( no more that 3/4 mt high) with irregular rocks ...you cant climb a tall , well done wall if you are not spider man ...i think CA implemented that because was cool and its portrayed in some old paintings ...but still i think its totally unrealistic

[PumkinKing]

ehehe i know i was joking ...still i think that the climbing thing was only relative to small walls ( no more that 3/4 mt high) with irregular rocks ...you cant climb a tall , well done wall if you are not spider man ...i think CA implemented that because was cool and its portrayed in some old paintings ...but still i think its totally unrealistic

I i searched a bit about siege warfare in japan: Mostly the sieged castles got sieged till the enemy surrender, because of starvation.

The thing with the wall climbing is only partly right. They climbed some walls thats right, but right like you say these were not the highest walls, like they climb 10 m. walls sometimes in the game ^^.
In Japan they used ladders and robes to come on the top of the walls, too. They also dig tunnels to get under the walls (like in RTW).
In some case they tried to flood the forts respectively the area arround! ( Hideyoshi used this technique perfect )

Added to this it must be said that only a few castles were these "big ass" castles, but you allready counteracted this with the high cost i think.

Its sad that CA not integraded some of these siege weapons and instead all the warriors climb high walls in Ninja-style. Also it is sad that the AI everytime uses the walls and never tries to attack trough the gates.

My campaign status is that i Upgraded now my last fort on honshu and the Ouchi and Mori permantly try to take it away from me, at first they came with mixed armys, but now they always came with Samurai/Ronin armys. Maybe you will see this in your long-time-testing on saturday.

PS. A question i have is: How much do burning arrows affect on the Moral of a Unit?
Imagine there is a guy next to you and in next moment he is burning.^^

[Fra70]

yup i already modified the roning thing ....
also i increased resistance to AI invasion


final testing is underway ..some diplomacy things have to be sliglty modified but it seems that everything is working fine ( i will probably make the tokugawa neutral with both oda and imagawa and let the player or fate to decide in which direction they will go )...still there is a bug in the oda panel that recognize me as a imagawa vassal ..i will search for that ..but everything went fine afterward ...

Release of version 2 almost sure for tomorrow !

[Nokter]

Happy to hear, looking forward to it!

But now, a few things I've spotted during my 150 turn Tokugawa and as a simple gamer, without the backing of tons of historical data and could be considered as possible changes.

1. Gunpowder Unit range really gonna stay at 100? In my opinion it kills all the fun in using, already limited, matchlock units.
2. For some reason Late Asigaru don't benefit from any castle upgrades as encampments, or regional perks as Blacksmith.
3. Arrows are made from sticks.
4. Diplomacy is the best diplomacy I've encountered in a mod, but still some clans like to send a invasion army on the other side of Japan just for sake of braking a allience.

No pressure, just some thoughts i felt like sharing.

[Fra70]

any feedback is really appreciated !!

1. Gunpowder Unit range really gonna stay at 100? In my opinion it kills all the fun in using, already limited, matchlock units.

yes i think it will stay as its , the risk to make it a shooting game is too high ... you can still make deadly matchlock units with a some upgrades but that will require efforts , money and sacrificies in other fields ... i think after much playtesting that missile units should not be improved more because that will ruin a smart gameplay .

2. For some reason Late Asigaru don't benefit from any castle upgrades as encampments, or regional perks as Blacksmith.

yes that will be corrected in version 2 that i will upload tomorrow ... i was stopid enough to clone them from the boshin yari kachi a so they didnt get any upgrades from shogun buildings ..that is corrected right now .When you do a new units in some tables you NEED to start cloning a pre-existing one since there are around 50-60 fields of which 40-45 are worthless so basically you clone the more similar to the one you want to create . I was still very new to modding at that time and i did pick the wrong unit to be used as template .

3. Arrows are made from sticks.

this is a very common complain ..but some playtesting ive made in the last days made me think to not change it anyway ... in sieges today my archers have killed around 10 out of 75 charging yari samurai ...and that is ok to me since they werent untrained and not using flaming arrows or other upgrades .

4. Diplomacy is the best diplomacy I've encountered in a mod, but still some clans like to send a invasion army on the other side of Japan just for sake of braking a allience.

yes sometimes i wonder if the AI even read datas anyway it was retouched again from version one and i hope everything now will be even better ...hopefully ...

[GERMANICUS]

Greetings Fra70!
I am going to dust off my copy of Shogun2 just to give your mod a try. I have been impressed with your efforts thus far.
I always enjoy a strong sense of realism to my Total games and your mod seems to offer it. +Rep

[Fra70]

Greetings Fra70!
I am going to dust off my copy of Shogun2 just to give your mod a try. I have been impressed with your efforts thus far.
I always enjoy a strong sense of realism to my Total games and your mod seems to offer it. +Rep

thank you !! wait tomorrow for version 2 !!

[Pico total war]

I'm a Venno's friend, soo I have played V2 already and this mod is awesome!!
It's good to be italian I'm tired, sorry for the italian
I think naval units cap is not flawless

giocando con i chosokabe (e sbloccando circa il 50% dell'albero) ho trovato il cap navale estremamente penalizzante. Sono d'accordo con eliminare le unità nanban e limitare cosi tanto le navi commerciali.
Le unità da guerra di livello basso sono a mio avviso troppo poche risultando quasi inutili. Suggerisco o di rendere reclutabili unità navali migliori anche ai livelli portuali precedenti o inserire unità navali AOR che renderebbero le fazioni con numerosi porti piu efficaci ma senza esagerare. L'Ai con cosi poche unità navali fa fatica a compiere sbarchi

the more AOR units we can recruit the better.
Questo differenzia le grandi potenze dai piccoli clan. Nella prossima versione vorrei averne ancora di più

No more rebellions?
Questo punto non l'ho compreso. L'ordine pubblico nei total war è una componente strategica di non poco conto. renderlo inutile ha reso la campagna semplice e meno riflessiva. Potrei concordare nel limitarlo verso l'AI (come accade a leggendario), non verso il giocatore. La campagna viene rovinata

Suggestions about events

Ho trovato la maggior parte delle modifiche ai turni perfetta ma hai dimenticato gli eventi storici. Quelli positivi per me vanno bene (8 turni sono sufficienti) quelli negativi come carestia o tsunami per 2 turni sono troppo bassi. Tra l'altro nella sengoku jidai un clan poteva andare in rovina a causa di una carestia. A mio avviso bisogna aumentare la percentuale degli eventi negativi e portarli a sei turni. Se potessi sarebbe fantastico avere nuovi eventi storici

ps ovviamente il sogno sarebbe quello di vedere delle modifiche alla mappa di campagna. Magari anche minime

[Fra70]

No no ive increased the rebellions chances not lowered ... the version you have is still with almost vanilla parameters for that !Even for the player now it will be difficult to mantain order ( in the first turns )

For the naval cap ...well i think its working because you have to add the , many , ships you can capture ...now capturing ships have a mean ...
If the AI have problems landing ( or if the player risk alot trying to land somewhere else ) i think this add a realistic aspect ...

For the events , yes now are more common but not by much ..you can have a catastrophic one every 10 years ( ive made a playtest until 1565 and ive got no more than 1 tsunami and 1 famine )...nothing tragic and really dont make that big damages . Plus now you have some events that were rare to see even in a complete campaign ( masters of horses and things like that ) .

[ShinXari]

I usually play with the "extended campaign" mods because i hate being forced to "rush" my conquers and i would like to play this remake in the same way i played the first Shogun...

I know the passing of time, seasons etc. has been extended in the mod but would it be compatible with those kind of mods too?

Regarding the firearms... i appreciate the fact of trying to make them less powerful.... unfortunately i can understand it isn't possible to completely "force" the engine into something more "historical like".

For example...i remember that in the first Shogun TW arquebusers fired volleys by switching ranks... one rank fired and then retreated while the others reloaded.... and this capacity of maintaining a barrage was the strategy that Nobunaga used so well at Nagashino. Of course we can't have everyhing we want


There is also something i really hated in the Vanilla and that survived even in the modded versions like the Darthmod's ones.... the fact that even factions with one or two provinces are able to "spam" and mantain massive armies while i, as the player, struggle to maintain even two armies of ashigaru.

Now i understand that the unit maintaining cost is something essential for this kind of game and that massive armies would have a great impact on the economies of the time (Sun Tzu even stressed the importance of sabotaging the enemy's resources rather than draining one's own with the recruitment of gigantic armies) but it should indeed be more balanced and logical.

I can't see a minor faction with ONE castle becoming unassailable because he has stacked inside an enormous garrison....where the hell did he find the resources for doing so?

If this problem can be solved...or at least diminished in this mod i would really be grateful. >_>

[Pico total war]

No no ive increased the rebellions chances not lowered ... the version you have is still with almost vanilla parameters for that !Even for the player now it will be difficult to mantain order ( in the first turns )

In my campaign rebels armies don't spawn anymore I can have cities with public order -20 without problem.

Non compaiono piu armate ribelli sia usando il monaco sia razziando le città. Solo un mio problema?

For the naval cap ...well i think its working because you have to add the , many , ships you can capture ...now capturing ships have a mean ...
If the AI have problems landing ( or if the player risk alot trying to land somewhere else ) i think this add a realistic aspect ...

mmm maybe you're right. However I think big bunes should be avialable with militar ports

For the events , yes now are more common but not by much ..you can have a catastrophic one every 10 years ( ive made a playtest until 1565 and ive got no more than 1 tsunami and 1 famine )...nothing tragic and really dont make that big damages . Plus now you have some events that were rare to see even in a complete campaign ( masters of horses and things like that ) .

giusto ma non mi son spiegato: io parlavo del numero di turni di penalità difficile pensare che uno tsunami o carestia creino danni economici per solo 2 mesi, almeno 6. il -50 alle relazioni diplomatiche rifiutando di omaggiare lo shogun difficile pensare duri solo 4 mesi.

ah I think in version 3 u should improve autoresolve, in vanilla it's terrible

[Pico total war]

Sry double post

[PumkinKing]

thank you !! wait tomorrow for version 2 !!

I am still waiting for testing

No no ive increased the rebellions chances not lowered ... the version you have is still with almost vanilla parameters for that !Even for the player now it will be difficult to mantain order ( in the first turns )

I hadnt any rebellion till now, i only saw christian rebels in neighbor settlements since i installed this mod

For the naval cap ...well i think its working because you have to add the , many , ships you can capture ...now capturing ships have a mean ...
If the AI have problems landing ( or if the player risk alot trying to land somewhere else ) i think this add a realistic aspect ...

I not ofen play with naval-warfare because iam not so good in it. but i like the way you handled it, because so you prevent big-bune spamming from clans with more money.

[VENNONETES]

About 1: matchlocks are better against armours than arrows, the balance is good imo