NO ROWERS being shown in ships confirmed!!! :(

[Destraex]

I am extremely dissappointed in this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean sailors in their hundreds were depicted in empire and napoleon............... this means a lot of ancient ships will look stupid or not be portrayed at all. Every ship will be "cataphract" or in other words completely covered and most navies will look generic because of it!!!
Smaller ships that have completely open decks will look silly just as they did in empire total war. It is clear naval warfare is an afterthought and the resources are going elsewhere.

Rowers affect the function of the ship. Them getting killed makes one side pull the wrong way. Them getting stunned on one sides and having to sit on their benches again slows the ship. Good rowers should affect turn rates and possible manoevers just as well trained soldiers do.
They have all sorts of effects on its operation. I am guessing we will have a simplified galley warfare model. Rowers not really being included in the equation as anything but an overall statistic.

I am fairly sure I could find record of ships rowers being used as marines as well. Maybe not Roman but I certainly remember that rome1 had pirate crews from was it crete? That were land units.

The top speed of ships and how long they could stay at different speeds would be different depending on different crew skill, replacement crew carried and numbers of crew that had survived the battle. Targetting the crew in more open ships should have been an option and covered ships perhaps a little slower due to their bulk and extra weight..... I guess we will not see this. Galleys not being treated like living things or even sailing vessels. They are now motor boats

Q. Will there be rowers in naval battles?

A. Naval battles in Rome II are going to be larger in scale than previous Total War games with multiple ships per units and hundreds of men in each unit.

We will not representing the rowers as actual 3d models for various reasons. The ship models have been made to not show below decks, rendering the hundreds of rowers per ship would have a big performance impact, and coding in the mechanics to have them work and interact correctly would take a lot of code time away from other areas of naval battles.

There will be oars shown for ships, and they will be fully animated, and I hope you can understand why we decided not to show 3d models of all the rowers.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...ghlight=rowers


What will these ships look like without rowers? Perhaps they will just not be in game... it seems to be the carthaginians who had ships of these types in a lot of cases.








Even from the top we should see rowers. NOt just the side..

[Neptune4394]

NEED A SUPERCOMPUTER to implement everything

[♠ Thomas Cochrane ♠]

You're only just discovering this now?? Discussion on this, and how much of a travesty took place months ago, along with the confirmation that there'd be no rowers. But yes. it's a travesty!

[Dan113112]

You're only just discovering this now?? Discussion on this, and how much of a travesty took place months ago, along with the confirmation that there'd be no rowers. But yes. it's a travesty!

There's a reason why there isn't going to be any rowers. It takes up to much computing power and you have to animate all of those rowers.

[panzerschreck]

I am disapointed too, I think it's always possible to make a compromise: for example when your look from outside you don't see the rowers, when you look into the boats (camera settings 2), you could see it and specially when galleys are sinking, we could seesome animation with rowers drawning etc...
Rowers would have been a very immersive feature, it's a pity that a solution has been not seeked. I think saying we will not work on rowers is the simpliest solution for CA, making the same system as in shogun II for rows is easy. But that was not good for me.
Since the beginning, the problem of Naval battles in total war is the same: not immersives! It's also because there are a lack of immersives features that people don't play a lot to naval battles. It's why rowers will be a big lack and also as the op said, for the diversity of ships.
An other simple solution because we are speaking of computer performance:
make it an option!!!!

before battle you choose if you want rowers to appear in your game or not, depending if your computer can afford it or not. It's the same than choosing if you want ultra for the size of units or not!
It's exactly the same problem as the number of units: during years and years: 40 vs 40 is impossible: too much units on the screen etc. What we have since SHgun II? 40 vs 40 and those who want to play 20 vs 20 still can.

[Praefectus praetorio]

They did it in other total wars with ships. Empire and Napoleon being prime examples. Every cannon crew shown and you can go watch the action anytime you want. I mean what happens when ships get holes in them?

The biggest travesty is that they will obviously be avoiding a whole swath of ship designs to ensure they do not show rowers.

In Empire and Napoleon there were only 20 + 20 ships naval battles. In Rome2 there will be multiple ships in a unit. If there are 3 ships in a unit and 40 units in army/navy you can have 120 ships in just one navy. 240 total if you count enemys. And then have every one of them animated with hundreds of rowers + soldiers fighting on deck.

I'm not expert but didn't some ships (trireme for example) have hundred or two hundred rowers? Then imagine having 240 ships with 200 crew each...

Even if it would be just 20 units for navies there would be still be 120 ships.

[panzerschreck]

In Empire and Napoleon there were only 20 + 20 ships naval battles. In Rome2 there will be multiple ships in a unit. If there are 3 ships in a unit and 40 units in army/navy you can have 120 ships in just one navy. 240 total if you count enemys. And then have every one of them animated with hundreds of rowers + soldiers fighting on deck.

I'm not expert but didn't some ships (trireme for example) have hundred or two hundred rowers? Then imagine having 240 ships with 200 crew each...

Even if it would be just 20 units for navies there would be still be 120 ships.

I am sure that there will be no 120 units of soldiers on 120 ships. Indeed 3 ships in one unit but in naval battles there will be 10 units available I think so 10 vs 10.

[SamueleD]

I am sure that there will be no 120 units of soldiers on 120 ships. Indeed 3 ships in one unit but in naval battles there will be 10 units available I think so 10 vs 10.

Nah, I think they'll put 2-3 ships per unit (maybe 1 for the really big ones), but they will raise the unit limit in naval battles, so in the end we'll get a nice fleet, with rowers hidden in the lower deck (no strain on GPU) and tons of soldiers to board other ships, however I am curious to see how they will make celtic and germanic ships. Unless they are really lame they'll make ramming a big part of naval battles also.

Exactly. The number could be even higher depending on how many oars in a row and how many tiers there were.

Yeah, how many ships+water+soldiers+rowers can a gpu handle? I doubt even a quad-gpu crossfire/sli (that almost nobody has) could display that much with ultra detail, especially if you get a fleet of quinquereme with tons of rowers and soldiers.

[Karnil Vark Khaitan]

make your own game

[The Roman Republic]

Q. Will there be rowers in naval battles?

A. Naval battles in Rome II are going to be larger in scale than previous Total War games with multiple ships per units and hundreds of men in each unit.

We will not representing the rowers as actual 3d models for various reasons. The ship models have been made to not show below decks, rendering the hundreds of rowers per ship would have a big performance impact, and coding in the mechanics to have them work and interact correctly would take a lot of code time away from other areas of naval battles.

There will be oars shown for ships, and they will be fully animated, and I hope you can understand why we decided not to show 3d models of all the rowers.

Enough said.

[MathiasOfAthens]

You prob have a supercomputer to show 500 rowers but I dont so quit whining about the lack of showing 500 ing rowers.

[a tw player]

Please OP, put in some more exclamation marks to illustrate your point more effectively.

[Destraex]

Sorry guys I had not been following for a while. But since this was one of my main hopes... I just knee jerked

I am disapointed too, I think it's always possible to make a compromise: for example when your look from outside you don't see the rowers, when you look into the boats (camera settings 2), you could see it and specially when galleys are sinking, we could seesome animation with rowers drawning etc...
Rowers would have been a very immersive feature, it's a pity asolution has been not seeked.
And an other simple solution because we are speaking of computer performance: make it an option!!!!

before battle you choose if you want rowers to appear in your game or not depending if your computer can afford it or not.
It's exactly the same problem as the number of units: during years and years: 40 vs 40 is impossible: too much units on the screen etc. What we have since SHgun II? 40 vs 40 and those who want to play 20 vs 20 still can.

I agree. I think that at least any rowers who would be seen should. Ghost rowers are going to look a bit silly. Lord of the rings here we come.

There's a reason why there isn't going to be any rowers. It takes up to much computing power and you have to animate all of those rowers.

They did it in other total wars with ships. Empire and Napoleon being prime examples. Every cannon crew shown and you can go watch the action anytime you want. I mean what happens when ships get holes in them?

The biggest travesty is that they will obviously be avoiding a whole swath of ship designs to ensure they do not show rowers.

[Greve Af Göteborg]

Don't care much about the rowers being shown, as long as the rows are visible and moving.

[=Vastator=]

I personally don't mind about it, making 3d rowers representation require too much gpu power.

[Destraex]

I actually don't think resources would be stretched. Animations and graphics can be simplified for the rowers. They really only need one animation. ROW.
I guess though they do not want the complication of what to do with the rowers once battle is joined or the slavery argument. Both things that happened well enough in empire total war.

Like I said what annoys me most is we will not see any warships without fully enclosed rowing sections. Like all the pictures above.
This is like getting heavy armoured legionaries and no archers\peasants\auxilliaries. Is everybody to have elite enclosed navies?

This is a real sign that they probably think they made a mistake doing navies and are scaling back the complexity and work on navies in general.
Sounds like they are really just to be troop transports.

[weirdoascensor]

There is only a chance of a Saving Grace: Breakable Rows

[panzerschreck]

There is only a chance of a Saving Grace: Breakable Rows

Don't dream, if there are no rowers, there will be probably no breakable rows.

And I repeat: choosing to play in ultra should allow to see rowers, just as option and everyone would be pleased.

[XxAndrewxX2525]

Don't dream, if there are no rowers, there will be probably no breakable rows.

And I repeat: choosing to play in ultra should allow to see rowers, just as option and everyone would be pleased.

They wouldn't implement such stupid for that weird 2% of people that actually cares if there are rowers.

[Tankhive]

OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wont buy this game screw you CA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Really?