Get your animations here!

[King_Azzole]

Ok I realized that some people want to have all the unified animations done for all the pike and hoplite units. So I decided to release this zip with the descr and export files you can use with RTR PE to get them!

What you will need:

RTR PE addons Unified Animations Pack installed
RTR PE running off the BI .exe
Files in the zip

installation:

Drop both files in your data folder and done! Make sure you backup both files. I also modified the Spartan Hoplites and the Athenian Hoplites attack, defense and hitpoints. So if you would like those to be like in vanilla you will have to copy and paste the old stats from your descr. Just make sure you don't do the whole entry as this would remove the shield wall and hoplite "phalanx" ability from them. Sorry about that but I edited those long before I did the animations and do not have the original descr to put them back to normal. I just increased the spartans attack slightly, raised the defense slightly and added 1 hitpoint to the Athenians and raised the attack slightly. Otherwise they are like vanilla. (oh and I increased the stamina of the Athenians I think).

If you do make a mistake simply add the ability short pike, light spear and shield wall to them and remove phalanx ability. Also give there secondary attack a value of 0 so they always use the spear. Hopelites can no longer form a "phalanx" so its best to use them in guard mode and when you get close and personal enter shield wall to "push" into the enemy.

Macedons regulate an invading Carthaginian army:



Pikemen will now hold the pike two handed when at ease, and cover themselves with the shield:



Pikemen will also hold the pike two handed:



Romans will stab and large sword wielders will now do full sweeping swings:



Hoplite style warfare is in your face and brutal...:



Enjoy!

Edit: Use the updated model descr, it has a bug fix and a few units I missed.

[Panama Red 51]

King_Azzole:
You might want to change the Carthaginian-Liby spearman from the overhand fs_s1_hoplite back to the fs_spearman. The reason that I say this is that the Carthaginians supposeively used the Macedon phalanx methods at this time versus the Greek hoplite formations per all the RTW historians.

P.S. I glad you are enjoying my Unified Skeleton/Animation pack I created for RTRPE.

[King_Azzole]

King_Azzole:
You might want to change the Carthaginian-Liby spearman from the overhand fs_s1_hoplite back to the fs_spearman. The reason that I say this is that the Carthaginians supposeively used the Macedon phalanx methods at this time versus the Greek hoplite formations per all the RTW historians.

P.S. I glad you are enjoying my Unified Skeleton/Animation pack I created for RTRPE.

Ahhh so THAT'S the reason why the damn macedonians were linked to the liby spearmens models. I went through hell to pull the libys out of that model. I eventually used the hoplite militia for them because most of the other models had headpieces and only smooth helm I could find was the militia. I will tell you guys that to get this thing perfected it took some time (still not sure if everything is in place perfectly anyway).

Are you telling me that they fought with those little pikes underhand using two hands? That seems kind of odd. Should they at least not have longer pikes?

I don't understand the last picture, what animation is actualy happening? Overhand for all in phalanx formation? What causes them to be able to close in like this?

Hoplites no longer have the "phalanx" ability. They still remain close together, and especially so when in shield wall formation. In shield wall they will even "push" through the enemy like the hoplites did in real life. Holding a spear overhand with one hand will hardly stop an advancing enemy like a two handed pike will, hence the combat gets in your face and brutal compared to the distant pike combat you might be used to.

[Silver Guard]

I don't understand the last picture, what animation is actualy happening? Overhand for all in phalanx formation? What causes them to be able to close in like this?

[Panama Red 51]

This is Sig1's fs_s1_hoplite skeleton/animation. It allows certain spearman to hold the spear overhand when fighting the enemy versus CA's underhand spearman skeleton/animation.

[Panama Red 51]

They should be using the regular spears versus the short_pike. It has been "augued" all over the RTW forums that the Poeni Infantry used the 21' long_pike, while the Carthaginain-Liby troops used the regular 15'-18' spear.

[King_Azzole]

They should be using the regular spears versus the short_pike. It has been "augued" all over the RTW forums that the Poeni Infantry used the 21' long_pike, while the Carthaginain-Liby troops used the regular 15'-18' spear.

Hmmm I see. Well for some reason they were using the short pike which I estimate to be around 9-12 feet? So I figured they should have been using them overhand because it didnt seem "natural" that they would use such a short pike underhand. Would you mind pointing me to these historical references I love reading those.

It would take some work to undo the overhand libys since I had to change the texture, sprite and model code for them. I might do it later and post an updated one. I had to do that because I could not use them overhand without the Macedonians using the pikes overhand as well (which looked really really funky).

[Panama Red 51]

Some of Ospreys books on the Punic wars talk about this as well as some of the discussions in the historical section of TWC. Another source to quickly check is EB because they put one heck of a lot of research into everyone of their units. When you check the Carthaginain units, you will see that they also have the Carthaginain-Liby troops with the regular spears in the Macedon phalanx and the Elite (Poeni) troops using the Macedon 21' long_spears.

The following is straight from the EB descriptions of these two units:

Elite African Pikemen are two things: an elite infantry of picked men and a reply to the Successor's tactics. Although recruited from the Carthaginian population to be part of their infantry, these men are the ones that distinguished themselves in battle in many occasions. As very experienced and prized veterans, they are supported by the state, and as such, have extremely good equipment. Like most of the Successor's battle line, they fight as Macedonian-style phalangites wielding the long sarissae. They are a nearly impervious wall from the front, and, although like any phalangite unit, vulnerable from the sides or back, can hold their own in closer combat due to their proficiency with swords. Even the heaviest cavalry is no match for the Elite African Pikemen as long as they’re presenting their spears in the direction of their attacker. Only a flanking maneuver by heavy cavalry or heavy infantry has a chance of breaking them in a melee.

Liby-Phoenicians are a result of a mixing of Phoenician and Libyan races, and are the product of many a Phoenician lord ‘dallying’ with his peasants and slaves. There were a huge number of these half-breed men, so the Carthaginians used them in the army. They were armed and armored much the same as their Greek enemies on Sicily. They were armored in a linen cuirass, Thracian helmets, and bronze greaves. They have the traditional round shield of the Greek hoplite, but use longer spears with the underhand thrust, much like the reformed hoplites of the Greek mainland. They are a quality phalanx, able to stand up to both Romans and their Greek counterparts. They lack the heavy armor necessary to provide a huge amount of staying power on the battlefield against heavier infantry, however. This is a problem that led to the adoption of mail armor later.

[King_Azzole]

Some of Ospreys books on the Punic wars talk about this as well as some of the discussions in the historical section of TWC. Another source to quickly check is EB because they put one heck of a lot of research into everyone of their units. When you check the Carthaginain units, you will see that they also have the Carthaginain-Liby troops with the regular spears in the Macedon phalanx and the Elite (Poeni) troops using the Macedon 21' long_spears.

The following is straight from the EB descriptions of these two units:

Elite African Pikemen are two things: an elite infantry of picked men and a reply to the Successor's tactics. Although recruited from the Carthaginian population to be part of their infantry, these men are the ones that distinguished themselves in battle in many occasions. As very experienced and prized veterans, they are supported by the state, and as such, have extremely good equipment. Like most of the Successor's battle line, they fight as Macedonian-style phalangites wielding the long sarissae. They are a nearly impervious wall from the front, and, although like any phalangite unit, vulnerable from the sides or back, can hold their own in closer combat due to their proficiency with swords. Even the heaviest cavalry is no match for the Elite African Pikemen as long as they’re presenting their spears in the direction of their attacker. Only a flanking maneuver by heavy cavalry or heavy infantry has a chance of breaking them in a melee.

Liby-Phoenicians are a result of a mixing of Phoenician and Libyan races, and are the product of many a Phoenician lord ‘dallying’ with his peasants and slaves. There were a huge number of these half-breed men, so the Carthaginians used them in the army. They were armed and armored much the same as their Greek enemies on Sicily. They were armored in a linen cuirass, Thracian helmets, and bronze greaves. They have the traditional round shield of the Greek hoplite, but use longer spears with the underhand thrust, much like the reformed hoplites of the Greek mainland. They are a quality phalanx, able to stand up to both Romans and their Greek counterparts. They lack the heavy armor necessary to provide a huge amount of staying power on the battlefield against heavier infantry, however. This is a problem that led to the adoption of mail armor later.

Interesting. Wish i would have read that before I spent an hour discombobulating them. I still find it odd that PE comes with them using small pikes. Maybe it was just my version for some odd reason.. o_0

[Silver Guard]

I was wondering whether it would be possible to changhe your files to make a version compatable with RTRPE: AE's new units?

[King_Azzole]

I was wondering whether it would be possible to changhe your files to make a version compatable with RTRPE: AE's new units?

From what I understand, the animations are model based. So you could technically add them to any mod. You would just have to go into the descr_model_battle and change the appropiate animation for the model desired.

Lets say you have a guy in your export descr unit called black guards. Well you look up blackguards in the export. Then you look where is says soldier and see the name of the model (which is the soldier) that it uses. Then you go into the descr_model and find the name of the soldier. Then when you find it you would change the skeleton to the animation you desire.

[Panama Red 51]

Correct, the skeletons/animations are model based. That is why they will work with 95% of all RTW/BI mods at the moment.

There are only 2 mods (ITW & Res Gestae) at the moment that have some different models that call for some specific skeletons/animations that are not in the Unified Skeleton/Animation pack, but all others will work.

The one thing you must understand is that you can not just assign any skeleton/animation to any model and expect it to work. If the model builder did not include certain weapons or design the model to use specific skeletons/animations, you will get "wierd" results. An example is Attila's new Alexander Geek Mercenary model, it was not designed to use the fs_s1_holpite skeleton/animation, so when you assign that skeleton/animation to it, that particular model's spear disappears. This is why it is a trial and error method to test new models that you want to include in your mods if you did not 3ds Max them yourself.

T

[imthefrgt10]

is there any way just to get the phalanx holding spears with 2 hands?

[Panama Red 51]

The current available skeletons are the two handed foot pike/sarisae skeletons called:
fs_thp_f_spearman, and fs_fast_thp_f_spearman

Just test your particular model and see if it does what you want.

I would stay away from the fs_thp_f_spearman_p skeleton/animation though, it is not as throughly developed as the first two.

[limes]

@ Panama Red 51.

Hi. I'm just here in the right time .
I would like to ask you about some things connected with anims. I have tested animations provided by you in unified anim pack with my models yesterday. Excellent work Panama. I will hold myself from making my own anims for now. Maybe after all work connected with releasing RTR AE i'll be able to make sth new .
Of course there is no problem for me to change models, give them other weapons, change anims for them, etc.. I've got other problem.
First is using fs_spearman and fs_s1_hoplite by enemys on the battlefield. I like SigOne overhand animation, but i don't like the way overhand hoplites equiped with short spears penetrate my ranks (soldiers with longer spears and "phalanx" formation). Because of it i'm using rather fs_javelinman skeleton to get "overhand" effect. Next reason why i choose regular fs_javelinman and fe_swordsman skeletons for e.g. my Etruscan Spearmen is possibility of using two weapons. Using fs_s1_hoplite skeleton disables such possibility.
I would like you to ask for short description for anims. Two, three words.

thanks .

@ silver guard

RTR AE has implemented Unified Animation Pack by Panama Red 51. I'm gonna change some skeletons for my models. You can read above why. Have you got any propositions? Could you test a little new EB skeletons and send me a word what kind of units they are assigned for?

@ Future AE fans

It would be helpful to show me right way . Have you got any propositions connected with implementation particular skeletons into AE mod. All propositions will be considered (if Panama Red 51 or you tell me sth about new EB animations. If not setting new animations will take long time.

regards

limes

[Panama Red 51]

I used the fs_javelinman skeleton/animation for a long time as my overhand spearman skeleton/animation before I made the Unified pack and became able to use all of the EB/Sig1 skeletons/animations.

The only real problem with the fs_javelinman skeleton/animation (when used in the phalanx mode with short_pike) is that the rear ranks of the models do not always lower their spears when they finally come face to face with the enemy and begin stabbing with their spears. As a result, it looks a bit weird to see men stabbing 45 degrees up into the air and their foe directly in front of them. But as they say, "there is no free lunch", so you have to pick what bothers you the least.

As for the enemy breaking into your "regular" phalanx, that is more of a RTW 1.5 issue versus a skeleton/animation issue. You will really notice it if you test two equal phalanx's in combat mode. The two opposite phalanx's will penetrate into each other in about a minute and will become one big jumble of men fighting each other with their swords (if they have the fs_swordsman as secondary weapon).

As for using a secondary weapon with Sig1's fs_s1_hoplite, there is no problem. What is does do, is when the model has the DMB fs_s1_hoplite (with spear EDU) as primary and DMB fs_swordsman (with sword EDU) as secondary, the model will charge with the sword before switching back to the spear when contact is made. This is why Sig1 recommended that the sword be removed when using his fs_s1_hoplite, not because is causes a CTD or anything else, but for the visual effect. Unfortunately most people do not know why he recommeded removal of the sword so there is some confusion out there concerning this subject.

[limes]

I'm not sure if i understand it (last part of your post).

Are you sure that using fs_s1_hoplite skeleton gives possibility of using swords for the same unit too?

My experiences are different. Soldiers with fs_s1_hoplite are not using spears or swords or generate CTD.
Can you guide me?

My model has:
- spear as primary weapon,
- sword as secondary

DMB: fs_s1_hoplite, fs_swordsman (fs_swordsman is necessary for second weapon, if not EDU stat_sec must be deleted. If deleted hoplites don't use second weapon).

EDU:

stat_pri: - settings for spear
stat_pri_attrib: spear or short_pikes? (rather short_pikes)
stat_sec: - settings for sword
stat_sec_attrib: no

formations: square, phalanx (phalanx rather not)

Panama, could you tell me what is wrong?

[Panama Red 51]

Limes:
I have been using both in my RTRPE DMB and EDU for months without a single CTD, so I do not know what to say at the moment on what is causing your CTD.

I will try it in another mod when I go home tonight and see if it give me any problems.

[limes]

Do you use the following settings?

DMB: fs_s1_hoplite, fs_spearman
EDU: 1.) spear (and attrib: spear or short_spear).
2. swords (attrib: no)
formations: square, phalanx

????

[Panama Red 51]

An example:
DMB:
type corinthian_hoplite
skeleton fs_s1_hoplite, fs_swordsman

EDU:
soldier corinthian_hoplite, 60, 0, 1.3
attributes sea_faring,hide_forest,can_sap,hardy
formation 0.8, 1, 2, 2, 6, square, shield_wall
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 11, 16, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25, 0.5
stat_pri_attr spear, spear_bonus_4
stat_sec 8, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, sword, 25, 0.3
stat_sec_attr no

This is in the BI.exe version. I can use this same setting in the RTW.exe and still no problems either.